Selling the 2023 Z over MSRP

[MGD]

Ok very interesting timing. People are talking about the twins. Here is an example in Ontario (I believe Kingston) of some up selling, driving it until it's used a bit, and then jacking up the sticker. I emailed them to shame them a bit but might send a note back reminding them of OMVIC. They responded by saying there are some "added accessories" on it that justify the price of almost 10K increase:

https://www.autotrader.ca/a/toyota/...howCpo&ncse=no&ursrc=hl&orup=11_11_11&sprx=-1

I've never heard of OMVIC but if you have a website I might follow up on this one. I'm fed up with these dealers who think they can exploit that actual people who pay for their kids well being and roof over their heads. (Yes you do hear a cross tone).

I hear ya!

They have a pretty thorough website, read through it and it’ll list what dealers and manufacturers have to work with and what recourse consumers have. With anything though, make sure you have a good grasp on if they are in violation as nothing sucks more than pulling the trigger only to find out they are in compliance . Good luck!

Ontario Motor Vehicle Industry Council-OMVIC

 

[FBD]

I hear ya!

They have a pretty thorough website, read through it and it’ll list what dealers and manufacturers have to work with and what recourse consumers have. With anything though, make sure you have a good grasp on if they are in violation as nothing sucks more than pulling the trigger only to find out they are in compliance . Good luck!

Ontario Motor Vehicle Industry Council-OMVIC

Recheck my last post that I responded to you. I added way more. AMVIC exists too and in Alberta they allow the frivolous unauthorized packaging of all of these nonsense items as a cash grab. There's no winning in Alberta except to boycott them: Gerald Low at Country Hills Toyota in Calgary.

 

[morgand]

Fortunately I work for a dealer network in Australia, so hoping the price is not inflated. Employee discounts are drying up, as they can make better grosses selling the limited stock to normal customers.

 

[MGD]

Recheck my last post that I responded to you. I added way more. AMVIC exists too and in Alberta they allow the frivolous unauthorized packaging of all of these nonsense items as a cash grab. There's no winning in Alberta except to boycott them: Gerald Low at Country Hills Toyota in Calgary.

I’ll go back and check!

I was in the middle of the mad after supper shuffle in my house when I saw your last response

Alberta is a different province all on its own with how things operate there! I’m used to all of our f-ups here in Ontario so I can generally get by fairly well . It’s definitely a weird slippery slope the way some crap goes down and how it’s handled by different regulators. Even in my industry (electrical) there’s a fair share of headaches and how differently some of our regulations get interpreted and enforced

 

[West Aussie]

Fortunately I work for a dealer network in Australia, so hoping the price is not inflated. Employee discounts are drying up, as they can make better grosses selling the limited stock to normal customers.

Different for Aus is Nissan Aus sets the price…not individual dealers trying to scalp you.
im expecting prices to be a little higher in release just as they were for the 370…..but at least we won’t get ripped off from actual dealers

p.S we have an Aussie page, jump on….be good to have a dealer in there

 

[Houston.RZ34]

I had a former spouse MAKE me sell my Stillenized 370Z Roadster that was Hella quick, track ready, and sounded great...biggest mistake of my life.

I made that mistake once too my friend, never again.

 

[RicerX]

Dealerships are seeing record profits during this time and it definitely feels like they're using this opportunity to desensitize consumers to the term "market adjustment" so that they can continue to add that line item on top of MSRP well beyond 2022. Shop around and be patient, and yes go out of state to get treated fairly.

It's ok. We're witnessing the twilight of the entire dealership business model. It's dying. This is the last big run before the whole thing transitions to direct sales or online sales. The best thing we can do as buyers is to not put up with that bullshit and not buy from people abusing the system.

Dealerships provide little tangible value. They were once valuable for a few things, but specifically these:

• They were the single most significant source of information for a vehicle. Now they're not. Most sales guys are barely educated on the vehicles they're selling. In the last five years, I haven't encountered a single one that could name the vehicles a Rogue, for example, competed with.
• They were the only place you could obtain service. This hasn't been true for a while, and they know this could also die in the face of DIY or specialty shops that are more honest in the dealings or more cost effective, and that's why they're lobbying manufacturers to lobby the government to make it illegal to not use "official channels" for service or for owners to maintain their own vehicles. Being a service option is the last piece of what makes dealerships viable anymore. This is also why "subscription services" are becoming a thing with premium/luxury brands.
• They are the only place you can buy a new car.

For buyers, they're a necessary evil. 10/10 guys in here would rather go to a vending machine that spit out a Z rather than deal with a dealer. A direct-to-consumer model may even get people to buy cars that otherwise wouldn't buy. I'm waiting for the insanity of the market to subside before I buy a new Z. I fully intend to buy a new Z. I'm not going to screw myself to do it. I will not pay a markup for a depreciating asset in an inflated and hysterical market. Period. Some may say "well you gotta pay to play", perhaps that's true. But wasting money is wasting money, whether you can afford to waste it or not. Paying a markup is throwing money away.

Think of it this way - a certain dealer guy in here said the markup would be $5,000. As an example, if you put $5,000 into SHIB in August 2021 and sold it in October at the peak of the hysteria, you'd have $52,100. Definitely an extreme example, but instead of having payments on a Z with a markup on it, you could just have a Z if you were wiser with that $5,000.

You will never get that back out of a car. If your sheer enjoyment outweighs the logic of that, so be it. Go have fun. I personally have never even paid MSRP for a car, not to mention above MSRP. I never will if I can absolutely help it.

I shudder at the idea of what all these people in the housing market will do when this bubble bursts. There will be a record number of Americans sideways in their homes.

When this storm calms down, people are going to remember which dealerships were honest and of high integrity and those who wanted to rape and pillage their customer base, and when buyers that truly float the market with consistent recurring buys (like me), they will starve those who tried to screw them over during a unique time in the name of "supply chain this" and "COVID that". I'm all for dealerships that are truly there to serve their customers surviving and evolving in the face of changing conditions.

I'm also all for extortionists getting what they deserve.

 

[FBD]

It's ok. We're witnessing the twilight of the entire dealership business model. It's dying. This is the last big run before the whole thing transitions to direct sales or online sales. The best thing we can do as buyers is to not put up with that bullshit and not buy from people abusing the system.

Dealerships provide little tangible value. They were once valuable for a few things, but specifically these:

• They were the single most significant source of information for a vehicle. Now they're not. Most sales guys are barely educated on the vehicles they're selling. In the last five years, I haven't encountered a single one that could name the vehicles a Rogue, for example, competed with.
• They were the only place you could obtain service. This hasn't been true for a while, and they know this could also die in the face of DIY or specialty shops that are more honest in the dealings or more cost effective, and that's why they're lobbying manufacturers to lobby the government to make it illegal to not use "official channels" for service or for owners to maintain their own vehicles. Being a service option is the last piece of what makes dealerships viable anymore. This is also why "subscription services" are becoming a thing with premium/luxury brands.
• They are the only place you can buy a new car.

For buyers, they're a necessary evil. 10/10 guys in here would rather go to a vending machine that spit out a Z rather than deal with a dealer. A direct-to-consumer model may even get people to buy cars that otherwise wouldn't buy. I'm waiting for the insanity of the market to subside before I buy a new Z. I fully intend to buy a new Z. I'm not going to screw myself to do it. I will not pay a markup for a depreciating asset in an inflated and hysterical market. Period. Some may say "well you gotta pay to play", perhaps that's true. But wasting money is wasting money, whether you can afford to waste it or not. Paying a markup is throwing money away.

Think of it this way - a certain dealer guy in here said the markup would be $5,000. As an example, if you put $5,000 into SHIB in August 2021 and sold it in October at the peak of the hysteria, you'd have $52,100. Definitely an extreme example, but instead of having payments on a Z with a markup on it, you could just have a Z if you were wiser with that $5,000.

You will never get that back out of a car. If your sheer enjoyment outweighs the logic of that, so be it. Go have fun. I personally have never even paid MSRP for a car, not to mention above MSRP. I never will if I can absolutely help it.

I shudder at the idea of what all these people in the housing market will do when this bubble bursts. There will be a record number of Americans sideways in their homes.

When this storm calms down, people are going to remember which dealerships were honest and of high integrity and those who wanted to rape and pillage their customer base, and when buyers that truly float the market with consistent recurring buys (like me), they will starve those who tried to screw them over during a unique time in the name of "supply chain this" and "COVID that". I'm all for dealerships that are truly there to serve their customers surviving and evolving in the face of changing conditions.

I'm also all for extortionists getting what they deserve.

Well here here. Well put. Dealerships are one of the last industry sectors to undergo digital transformation. Look at how health delivery has changed?! Whoops. You mean the public health system where patients go to bricks and mortar clinics that doctors privately own is not longer a necessity? Wait...physicians can't use healthcare to pay off their real estate anymore? You see my point. You can extend my example to dealerships. It won't be overnight. But its coming.

 

[takemorepills]

If y'all think the dealership model is on it's way out, don't y'all think that the dealerships will bend us over as hard as possible until the end? Because I'm sure they see it coming.....

 

[Donalex]

As long as there are politicians with their hands out looking for "contributions"...good luck with all that.

 

[Drseckzytime]

What's crazy is how many of us are desperate to throw money away even as it becomes less valuable, speaking for myself primarily. I wish I didn't want a new vehicle so badly, technically don't need one, that's for sure.

I haven't had a fun car in a while now and it's really getting to me. Nothing had me excited in that time, now there's a few options all coming out at once of course. I will happily purchase what I want at sticker, and give the dealership a chance to win my financing, and install proper PPF on the car if they're capable. I won't pay over sticker. What did they do for me to deserve that? They got lucky enough of the draw to get the Z delivered to their lot? They need to earn sales in general.

I can't wait for the old model of selling cars to go away. Those greedy salespeople and managers will have to go somewhere else to willingly rip people off.

 

[NiZmonium]

Honestly , it would be so nice to buy the vehicle online from the manufacturer and have it delivered to a delivery center or something. And warranty work would be done through a manufacturer approved autoshop. No need to go to a dealership where you have to deal with 5 different people and spend half a day

 

[takemorepills]

I think somewhere along the line we discussed tactics dealers could use to go way above MSRP....
Well, here's my local Toyota dealer, taking a $53K truck, with 53 miles on it, and selling it for $70K "used". This is how dealers will mark up vehicles, even in places with legal restrictions.....
BTW, almost bought this truck exact same truck, brand-new, from a competing dealer for $53K (note, it's an "SR5" which in Toyota-speak is like 1 step above base, and 5 steps below top of the line):

 

[because_murica]

It's ok. We're witnessing the twilight of the entire dealership business model. It's dying. This is the last big run before the whole thing transitions to direct sales or online sales. The best thing we can do as buyers is to not put up with that bullshit and not buy from people abusing the system.

Dealerships provide little tangible value. They were once valuable for a few things, but specifically these:

• They were the single most significant source of information for a vehicle. Now they're not. Most sales guys are barely educated on the vehicles they're selling. In the last five years, I haven't encountered a single one that could name the vehicles a Rogue, for example, competed with.
• They were the only place you could obtain service. This hasn't been true for a while, and they know this could also die in the face of DIY or specialty shops that are more honest in the dealings or more cost effective, and that's why they're lobbying manufacturers to lobby the government to make it illegal to not use "official channels" for service or for owners to maintain their own vehicles. Being a service option is the last piece of what makes dealerships viable anymore. This is also why "subscription services" are becoming a thing with premium/luxury brands.
• They are the only place you can buy a new car.

For buyers, they're a necessary evil. 10/10 guys in here would rather go to a vending machine that spit out a Z rather than deal with a dealer. A direct-to-consumer model may even get people to buy cars that otherwise wouldn't buy. I'm waiting for the insanity of the market to subside before I buy a new Z. I fully intend to buy a new Z. I'm not going to screw myself to do it. I will not pay a markup for a depreciating asset in an inflated and hysterical market. Period. Some may say "well you gotta pay to play", perhaps that's true. But wasting money is wasting money, whether you can afford to waste it or not. Paying a markup is throwing money away.

Think of it this way - a certain dealer guy in here said the markup would be $5,000. As an example, if you put $5,000 into SHIB in August 2021 and sold it in October at the peak of the hysteria, you'd have $52,100. Definitely an extreme example, but instead of having payments on a Z with a markup on it, you could just have a Z if you were wiser with that $5,000.

You will never get that back out of a car. If your sheer enjoyment outweighs the logic of that, so be it. Go have fun. I personally have never even paid MSRP for a car, not to mention above MSRP. I never will if I can absolutely help it.

I shudder at the idea of what all these people in the housing market will do when this bubble bursts. There will be a record number of Americans sideways in their homes.

When this storm calms down, people are going to remember which dealerships were honest and of high integrity and those who wanted to rape and pillage their customer base, and when buyers that truly float the market with consistent recurring buys (like me), they will starve those who tried to screw them over during a unique time in the name of "supply chain this" and "COVID that". I'm all for dealerships that are truly there to serve their customers surviving and evolving in the face of changing conditions.

I'm also all for extortionists getting what they deserve.

RicerX out here spittin big #facts.

 

[because_murica]

I think somewhere along the line we discussed tactics dealers could use to go way above MSRP....
Well, here's my local Toyota dealer, taking a $53K truck, with 53 miles on it, and selling it for $70K "used". This is how dealers will mark up vehicles, even in places with legal restrictions.....
BTW, almost bought this truck exact same truck, brand-new, from a competing dealer for $53K (note, it's an "SR5" which in Toyota-speak is like 1 step above base, and 5 steps below top of the line):

+10 points for the Linux distro.