So... who's still "all in"

[rocksandblues]

Just to add to the “could have Toyota done it alone”. :

Lotus uses a Toyota supercharged v6 in current and past models. Around 400 hp

fwiw

 

[takemorepills]

Course they could've. Lower quality interior, toss in the old Camry V6, put it on the RC chassis, and it would've been a Z competitor.

But they aimed higher than the Z, at the Cayman, and got help from BMW to achieve that loftier goal. Data suggests they did a good job if we consider sales numbers and comparison reviews.




You wildly missed the point here.

First off, I've noticed its been quite common that people love using BMW reliability standards from the 90s and 00s to try and say the Supra is unreliable, which is an invalid comparison, especially when the data around the B58 platform shows that it's a reliable engine. If you want to make a comparison, look at the modern reliability metrics, not ancient data.

Secondly, I never said "older folks" in general. I was specifically referring to folks who say that modern cars are unreliable because they have an older car that still runs. That specific group tends to be older folks.


And you can complain as much as you want about companies collaborating, but the truth is that some of the biggest names in cars came about due to collaborations, and that's not going to stop: McLaren F1, Vauxhall Lotus Carlton, SLR McLaren, MB 500E, Audi RS2 Avant, BMW M1

I personally never bring up reliability in the Z vs. Supra debate, in fact I have mentioned several times on this forum that I have personally seen Infiniti Qs with their drivetrains out to get at the turbos. I have a Q60 that I take to the dealership and they said it's common. Then I warn people to remember that the Nissan warranty is typically shorter than the Infiniti.

So, you'll never hear me suggest one is more reliable than the other.

However, you have the typical bravado about new German cars suddenly being "reliable" and that's pure bullshit. Everyone says that, then we look back 10 years and see the truth.

I have and would again lease a German car. But I think you're hitting Hunter Biden's stash if you honestly think a 3 year old car has proven it's reliable in the long run.

That may not matter to you, you may change up cars too frequently to care about 10 years out. But you'd be a damn fool to buy a 10year old BMW and pretend it'll be reliable

 

[romanLegion]

I personally never bring up reliability in the Z vs. Supra debate, in fact I have mentioned several times on this forum that I have personally seen Infiniti Qs with their drivetrains out to get at the turbos. I have a Q60 that I take to the dealership and they said it's common. Then I warn people to remember that the Nissan warranty is typically shorter than the Infiniti.

So, you'll never hear me suggest one is more reliable than the other.

However, you have the typical bravado about new German cars suddenly being "reliable" and that's pure bullshit. Everyone says that, then we look back 10 years and see the truth.

I have and would again lease a German car. But I think you're hitting Hunter Biden's stash if you honestly think a 3 year old car has proven it's reliable in the long run.

That may not matter to you, you may change up cars too frequently to care about 10 years out. But you'd be a damn fool to buy a 10year old BMW and pretend it'll be reliable

Age isn't the sole factor in reliability; mileage has a heavy hand too. There's a guy with a Mk5 Supra with 75k miles on it -- no issues, just regular maintenance. I also visited the F30 bimmerpost forum, since the F30 3 and 4 series are commuter cars with the B58 -- the only issue was people who blew their turbos overboosting them (so user error). I also haven't seen negatives on the CLAR modular architecture in the several years its been out. The signs seem good that the overall setup will last well past 100k miles with just regular wear and tear.
I'm not saying all BMWs are reliable, but this platform is passing the smoke test so far.

At least from the engine side of things, Toyota had some say in the B48/B58 as well as the Subaru boxer 4 for the Supra and 86 respectively. I have little doubt their input has offered some benefits.

Time will tell if something major happens at 200k or more.

 

[Ballast Scorcher]

Vote changed to still waiting.

Ive had a 5k deposit down sibce October and contract in place, heck, i've even got personalised plates and things ordered and paid for, but there's a few things about this Aussie version that have put me off-side and I don't know that it's worth the near on 90k that they're asking.

We'll see how things go.

 

[GeelongCats]

Vote changed to still waiting.

Ive had a 5k deposit down sibce October and contract in place, heck, i've even got personalised plates and things ordered and paid for, but there's a few things about this Aussie version that have put me off-side and I don't know that it's worth the near on 90k that they're asking.

We'll see how things go.

Dude please share what’s on your mind, what’s putting you off? Also having doubts on pricing.

 

[West Aussie]

Vote changed to still waiting.

Ive had a 5k deposit down sibce October and contract in place, heck, i've even got personalised plates and things ordered and paid for, but there's a few things about this Aussie version that have put me off-side and I don't know that it's worth the near on 90k that they're asking.

We'll see how things go.

Wow, turn around for you.
I understand there are a few concerns, but it’s still 15k cheaper than the Supra, and most likely 20k by the time the manual comes out as it’s only available in the top trim.
So it’s the Z or the BRZ which comes no where close and in on every street corner

 

[Denver the Last Dinosaur]

^ I don't know about Australia, but Subaru makes fewer cars, so the BRZ is rarer on the roads than the Toyota 86 ... of course, other than the badge, it's hard to tell the difference.

 

[Raven1]

Best thing I've Heard All Day,

"You Must Be Hitting Hunter Biden's Stash"

Speaking of Which, Dude is a Daily Practicing Crystal-Methodist So I'm Positive It's High Grade Shit . . .

 

[rmbge]

Still down, just waiting on Nismo info. It'll have to be a significant upgrade if it runs $60k though or I'm out. I have deposits down for a GR Corolla and a '23 GR86 10th which both will come first.

Waiting to see if I can stomach the exterior, but the only other new car like this that interests me at all is a 6MT G87 M2. I just said the other day that I can't imagine a scenario where I end up with another BMW yet here we are . Hopefully I'm won over by the Nismo.

I’m curious… what’s the draw to the 86?

 

[NiZmonium]

I’m curious… what’s the draw to the 86?

I think a lot of younger people who have mostly owned cheaper , low horsepower cars see a car like the 86 or a BRZ as a next level of performance and power .

Years ago I owned a couple Nissan Maximas and other cheaper low-end cars , and when I was able to afford a better car I bought an Infiniti G37, and was really happy and excited about it , because to me it was a faster and more luxurious vehicle .

And of course after a couple of years I was already wanting a car with more power

 

[Denver the Last Dinosaur]

The 86 / BRZ are good cars, relatively cheap, sports cars with little electronic gimmickry interfering. They also have a ton of mods for those who insist on ruining their cars.

 

[jose3030]

Got 2 deposits down.

One for the largest dealer in DC. Maybe top 3 on that list.
Another one, close by, top 8 on that list.

I'm really thinking I may get both of my deposits back.
Something is telling me that both dealers are gonna go crazy w/ markups.

 

[Metal]

The 86 / BRZ are good cars, relatively cheap, sports cars with little electronic gimmickry interfering. They also have a ton of mods for those who insist on ruining their cars.

They also go pretty hard on small curvy/technical tracks. Miatas and the twins with good drivers will dust most cars at my local track

 

[Donalex]

The 86 / BRZ are good cars, relatively cheap, sports cars with little electronic gimmickry interfering. They also have a ton of mods for those who insist on ruining their cars.

I finally took the opportunity to read Car & Driver's reports on both of them. It seems they are close to the Z32, in spirit and about 700 lbs lighter.

 

[trackratZ]

I finally took the opportunity to read Car & Driver's reports on both of them. It seems they are close to the Z32, in spirit and about 700 lbs lighter.

They drive like larger Miatas, excellent handling and balance, really. Easy to drive at the limit, stock power that is.