Sport MT vs Nismo AT - Real World Perspective

[Modfather]

So, let me throw this out there...
If the difference between a NISMO and a Performance Z is about $10,000. Using that money to upgrade the Performance suspension, tires and brakes... maybe a small upgrade to get a few extra horses and Torque. Would it be reasonable to say that you would now have a Nismo-performance Z but with a manual transmission?

What say You?

It would have some similarities for sure,

the nismo has some differences to the normal z underneath, I remember rear subframe/bracing being one piece, there could be other things too. I saw a bit about it in this video:

Would be interested to see if they did anything to the chassis on the nismo, they have with other cars in the past. The Silvia S15 spec r had additional chassis bracing welded in the floor under the carpet behind the front seats that was not on the other models.

 

[jc604]

So, let me throw this out there...
If the difference between a NISMO and a Performance Z is about $10,000. Using that money to upgrade the Performance suspension, tires and brakes... maybe a small upgrade to get a few extra horses and Torque. Would it be reasonable to say that you would now have a Nismo-performance Z but with a manual transmission?

What say You?

Depends i guess on the parts you are getting suspension wise but dollar wise nismo would probably be better. If its for the mt ya that would be your route to go

 

[FSUZ33]

Would be interested to see if they did anything to the chassis on the nismo, they have with other cars in the past. The Silvia S15 spec r had additional chassis bracing welded in the floor under the carpet behind the front seats that was not on the other models.

One of the differences with the Z33 NISMO was they sent the chassis's(?) to Autech where they manually welded and reinforced seams and attachment points. Not sure about the Z34 and RZ34. I've read things like "reinforced" "additional bracing" and other general phrases. At some point after the Z33 Nissan bought Autech and integrated it with Nissan's performance division.

 

[heritageownerKurosawaz400]

It would have some similarities for sure,

the nismo has some differences to the normal z underneath, I remember rear subframe/bracing being one piece, there could be other things too. I saw a bit about it in this video:

Would be interested to see if they did anything to the chassis on the nismo, they have with other cars in the past. The Silvia S15 spec r had additional chassis bracing welded in the floor under the carpet behind the front seats that was not on the other models.

You are correct, on the japan side they went over this, near the trunk by the suspension there is reinforcements to all 4 corners, with 8(?) tig welded zones, and lots of V Braces. Chassis is key and I really like Nismo's intention there. 370z forums and 350z forums only have praise for the changes on the Nismo chassis rigidity wise too, to the point that a modified Nismo- if you were to - is a better platform then modified base/performance.

 

[ScorpioNick]

Bit of background first - I have owned a couple of Silvia/240sx S14s over the years and also got to drive R33 gtst and experience an R33 GTR, i am very familiar with older manual transmission nissan sports cars!. I am also an avid fan of the "save the manuals" club!

I have also owned some performance automatics from the 90s and early 2000s - Mercedes E55 AMG and Volvo 2.5 Turbo. The transmissions sucked and i wanted to manual swap both vehicles, this was my bias when i was looking at the Z. I have no experience with a DCT equipped vehicle.

Why Z in the first place - I don't currently have the facilities or time to buy a 25+ year old Nissan to rebuild it the way i want as a project, also the cost increase on those cars in the last 5 years from my perspective pushed me towards something shiny and new instead of old, tired and abused. I would love to rebuild an old nissan as a project but it does not make sense for where i am in life right now!

That said, i had my eyes fixed on a bayside blue sport with MT. I went to the dealership and looked at it, beautiful car. I also clocked the Red Nismo in the show room - also a beautiful car and it got my gears turning.

I wanted the Sport as the base for building my ultimate turbo nissan, i knew that i would need to do certain modifications to make it the way i want - but the reality of being able to work on the vehicle started to set in, so i started to consider the Nismo as on paper it has a lot of what i want and is a jumpstart towards future tuning projects - but then there is the torque convertor automatic and lack of ability to row through gears.

80% of the reviews on the nismo are by reviewers feeding off the hype around it being automatic and should be ignored

Here is my perspective on the sport vs nismo:
I went back to the dealership and drove both back to back.

The Sport:

• It has all the DNA of the 90s Nissans i know and love - this is an incredible car i would of been more than happy with it
• The shift is not as crisp as my old nd miata mx5, but not bad - a short shifter would fix this.
• The revs do hang after changing gear which is a little annoying, i believe a lighter flywheel fixes this (Nismo Clutch Kit)
• The suspension is a bit floaty in the front, just like nissans of old in stock form, its set up as a GT car - The aftermarket can fix this
• For me there is a modification list that i don't have time/a shop at home to tackle right now - this ultimately pushed me to the Nismo

The Nismo (i went with this):

• This car is definitely on another level (stock vs stock) compared to the sport, it feels very modern and grown up in comparison.
  • The Sport gave me 90s JDM sports car nostalgia whereas the Nismo feels like what i imagine a modern porsche to be like.
• The transmission is awesome in sport+ mode, shifts are snappy and responsive, i personally think delays in shifting are overhyped.
  • This is a million miles from AT transmissions of old (and my wifes 24' Nissan frontier which is the same base transmission!)
• This car is an amazing package, it is purpose built to do trackdays out of the box.
  • This is where i wanted to go with the sport, once i drove it i finally understood why it has the automatic, "I get it".
  • Bringing it all together with the AT - my concerns were completely satisfied.
  • It is way more planted than a regular Z, but it is stiff so be prepared for that
  • The Recaros hold you better than the seats in the sport
• This car would SUCK as a daily driver, it is full on hardcore (comparatively) to the Sport.
  • If you want comforts and daily drivability go for the sport or performance, they are geared towards that use and you can tune to suspension to your liking
  • The ride home over rougher highway was like being on a pogo stick, lol.

"its not a sports car with an automatic transmission, the lack of manual will leave you longing" - Wrong!

Tldr; to close i will say this:

• Both flavors of the Z were awesome, but they are different cars.
• If your on the fence about the nismo over the transmission go drive one, ignore the "hype" in reviews.
• If you want to daily drive then the nismo might not be for you.
  • The Sport is a great platform for modification due to the price point
  • The Performance could be the sweet spot for people who want to keep it stock or do basic bolt ons plus daily drive / do lots of street driving.
• I respect everyone in the "save the manuals club" - it would be nice to have the option for the nismo but as a package it works! After driving it i finally understood why they did it and i am happy with my purchase.

I COMPLETELY agree with regards to the NISMO Z AT paddle shift which after I decided I SHOULD test drive it to see if it was "fun" to drive.

It was a resounding YES! I was very much going to buy the sport manual Z but the extras on the NISMO were all things I was going to need anyway once I got into increasing its HP.

I managed to get my NISMO new and 20k under the usual price, I flew to a different state in Australia and drove it back. Totally worth it.
Looking forward to when I've got her at the 500+ HP mark.

 

[Zenogias]

So, let me throw this out there...
If the difference between a NISMO and a Performance Z is about $10,000. Using that money to upgrade the Performance suspension, tires and brakes... maybe a small upgrade to get a few extra horses and Torque. Would it be reasonable to say that you would now have a Nismo-performance Z but with a manual transmission?

What say You?

In theory yes, but I believe at the moment Nismos are going for nearly the same price as Manual Performance. I actually saw a Nismo going for cheaper than a performance manual in my area, by about 4k.

 

[NocturnalEmber]

So, let me throw this out there...
If the difference between a NISMO and a Performance Z is about $10,000. Using that money to upgrade the Performance suspension, tires and brakes... maybe a small upgrade to get a few extra horses and Torque. Would it be reasonable to say that you would now have a Nismo-performance Z but with a manual transmission?

What say You?

If memory serves, save for some structural reinforcements (which technically could be added, but for arguments sake I'll take that out) virtually everything the nismo has you can bolt right onto a performance.

Personally I would never buy an automatic sports car (much less one with a slushbox) so the 9AT was never something I would ever entertain regardless. My way of making driving fun as opposed to a commute is engaging with the car and by my nature I find an automatic transmission precludes that. I understand however, that many people don't share that view, and that's fine, but not for me.

I'm well aware of my bias (I feel the same when I hear the classic line of people that buy an auto version of a car because of 'traffic' or whatever reason) but even taking the transmission out of the equation, the Nismo isn't worth it to me. The juice doesn't justify the squeeze.

Nissan really priced themselves out of their own selection with the Z. If I'm looking at a 70,000$ car, I'm going to Porsche, full stop; If I'm looking at a sport model, its awfully stripped down for what it offers, and despite what many people say its not just the LSD either. My argument is that its lacking the tires, the rims, it has a smaller head unit, the smaller brakes, lack of a rear wing, no S mode, no heated seats, etc.

If I'm paying $40,000~, I'd expect a certain level of things to accompany that as just common sense options. The base doesn't need to have *all* of that, but maybe some people are fine with paying 80% of the price for 40% of the car?

This puts the Performance as the only real option for someone like me. Do I think I overpaid despite not paying a mark up? Yes, I do. I love my Z, but the car honestly should have been 50-51k msrp.

I felt like in order to justify, or attempt to justify the NIsmo, they had to intentionally ship the other trims with basic options that would negate performance (S007's, I'm looking at you) among other things. You can bolt the majority of the parts right onto a performance or sport while being able to change your own gears, so its a no brainer for me. The Nismo has its intended market audience, and that's fine, but I'm happy with where I went.

 

[CPerdomo]

If memory serves, save for some structural reinforcements (which technically could be added, but for arguments sake I'll take that out) virtually everything the nismo has you can bolt right onto a performance.

Personally I would never buy an automatic sports car (much less one with a slushbox) so the 9AT was never something I would ever entertain regardless. My way of making driving fun as opposed to a commute is engaging with the car and by my nature I find an automatic transmission precludes that. I understand however, that many people don't share that view, and that's fine, but not for me.

I'm well aware of my bias (I feel the same when I hear the classic line of people that buy an auto version of a car because of 'traffic' or whatever reason) but even taking the transmission out of the equation, the Nismo isn't worth it to me. The juice doesn't justify the squeeze.

Nissan really priced themselves out of their own selection with the Z. If I'm looking at a 70,000$ car, I'm going to Porsche, full stop; If I'm looking at a sport model, its awfully stripped down for what it offers, and despite what many people say its not just the LSD either. My argument is that its lacking the tires, the rims, it has a smaller head unit, the smaller brakes, lack of a rear wing, no S mode, no heated seats, etc.

If I'm paying $40,000~, I'd expect a certain level of things to accompany that as just common sense options. The base doesn't need to have *all* of that, but maybe some people are fine with paying 80% of the price for 40% of the car?

This puts the Performance as the only real option for someone like me. Do I think I overpaid despite not paying a mark up? Yes, I do. I love my Z, but the car honestly should have been 50-51k msrp.

I felt like in order to justify, or attempt to justify the NIsmo, they had to intentionally ship the other trims with basic options that would negate performance (S007's, I'm looking at you) among other things. You can bolt the majority of the parts right onto a performance or sport while being able to change your own gears, so its a no brainer for me. The Nismo has its intended market audience, and that's fine, but I'm happy with where I went.

That would be my assessment as well.

 

[ScorpioNick]

If memory serves, save for some structural reinforcements (which technically could be added, but for arguments sake I'll take that out) virtually everything the nismo has you can bolt right onto a performance.

Personally I would never buy an automatic sports car (much less one with a slushbox) so the 9AT was never something I would ever entertain regardless. My way of making driving fun as opposed to a commute is engaging with the car and by my nature I find an automatic transmission precludes that. I understand however, that many people don't share that view, and that's fine, but not for me.

I'm well aware of my bias (I feel the same when I hear the classic line of people that buy an auto version of a car because of 'traffic' or whatever reason) but even taking the transmission out of the equation, the Nismo isn't worth it to me. The juice doesn't justify the squeeze.

Nissan really priced themselves out of their own selection with the Z. If I'm looking at a 70,000$ car, I'm going to Porsche, full stop; If I'm looking at a sport model, its awfully stripped down for what it offers, and despite what many people say its not just the LSD either. My argument is that its lacking the tires, the rims, it has a smaller head unit, the smaller brakes, lack of a rear wing, no S mode, no heated seats, etc.

If I'm paying $40,000~, I'd expect a certain level of things to accompany that as just common sense options. The base doesn't need to have *all* of that, but maybe some people are fine with paying 80% of the price for 40% of the car?

This puts the Performance as the only real option for someone like me. Do I think I overpaid despite not paying a mark up? Yes, I do. I love my Z, but the car honestly should have been 50-51k msrp.

I felt like in order to justify, or attempt to justify the NIsmo, they had to intentionally ship the other trims with basic options that would negate performance (S007's, I'm looking at you) among other things. You can bolt the majority of the parts right onto a performance or sport while being able to change your own gears, so its a no brainer for me. The Nismo has its intended market audience, and that's fine, but I'm happy with where I went.

I completely understand your position on this too. I was certainly not even entertaining the idea of buying the NISMO solely because of that "Automatic" trans.... then I drove it and realised it's not nearly anything like a typical auto transmission. It does actually have a "manual" setting too which is how I drive it. It's always in "Sport +" mode for me and the D/M at the bottom of the shifter has the "M" lit up after I tap it twice.

It truly is nothing like any AT i've ever driven but after driving it I expect to find these transmissions ending up in more and more sports cars. If I had the option of removing the other modes I would lol. Much like why we want a manual trans in our cars we also want the best performing version so the other two modes hold no interest for me and it's annoying when I forget to shift it into "Sport +" mode.

Do I miss a manual clutch? Yeah probably, but I'm also not having to deal with "hill starts" for example, not that those are an issue, but I've traded little things like that for everything the NISMO has. I NEVER thought I would choose a performance car with an AT but I didn't really, I was forced to buy Nissan just like you were forced to NOT buy it, but I maintain that it has a unique transmission, I shift up and shift down everywhere all the time and it is very close to the fun of a typical manual trans for me.

Honestly, we both have to justify our purchases and our reasons make perfect sense to me, but I had to test drive that NISMO and the salesman let me show him how well the car handles lol. I would not have paid full price ($103k AUD) for this car though, which is another reason I bought it cos I got a new car for 20k less than full price. I could argue that mine was newer than any other one out there because the plastic was still over the interior still, over the seats, the mirrors and the visors but all that stuff is removed by the salesman before put on display.

I'm gonna mod it to at least 500hp to the wheels and I would have done that with the Sport/performance Z version too. My journey to that end is just a little different now.

Either way, Fun car in my opinion. I'll be in a different car in a year of course

 

[Meg_Z]

That would be my assessment as well.

I feel exactly the same way in my opinion it’s sacrilegious to have an automatic in a supposed sports car. I know, I know dual clutch, and new manual mimicking automatics are faster and more fuel efficient. I was a BMW person owned numerous ones from 318 to 535 and once they stopped providing a manuals as an option that was it. Sadly VW is doing the same thing. In the end we each spend our money as we please and as long as you’re satisfied that’s all that really counts.

 

[Hernandooo]

The fact that the 24 Nismo Z went from $110k to $80k AUD in less then a year, AND I could've waited. Yes I want the Nismo now

 

[chadhunley]

The way I see it, a sports car is still a sports car, manual or not. It may make you feel like a bigger man if you can use a clutch pedal, but I must admit that these newer cars with the programming and tuning is just better from a performance point of view.

 

[Meg_Z]

The way I see it, a sports car is still a sports car, manual or not. It may make you feel like a bigger man if you can use a clutch pedal, but I must admit that these newer cars with the programming and tuning is just better from a performance point of view.

To each their own, but nowhere did you hear me say that. I drive a manual because I love the engagement with the car and yes I think true sports cars have them. That being said since you brought it up I don’t need a manual to make me feel like a bigger man. My over twenty years of military service checks that box been there done that. It seems you’re upset because you like to pretend shift in your sports car while wearing driving gloves and boots. If you need help on mastering a manual just ask!

 

[NorthSaltJake]

Went with the Performance because I wanted the manual, no regrets. After starting my suspension and chassis upgrades, I’m not jealous of the Nismo at all. It’s a great car, but unless you’re living at the track, most of the extra hardware is just a flex for forums.

"It may make you feel like a bigger man" Sounds more like cope than an actual take. No hate if you’re happy with the auto, just don’t project your buyer’s remorse onto everyone else.

 

[chadhunley]

Lol! I have a manual car, and have driven them for many years. I figured I would probably hit a nerve with you save the manual guys. But at the end of the day, to each their on, it makes no difference to me.