VR30DDTT more reliable than B58?

[jdm-rhd]

opinions vary as to whether the b58 may or may not be a decent engine, but all the supporting plastic components is what would worry me most.

 

[takemorepills]

opinions vary as to whether the b58 may or may not be a decent engine, but all the supporting plastic components is what would worry me most.

Unfortunately, I'm sure the VR has way more plastic than we'd like.

Nissan has been using plastic for a long time now. I believe the valve covers on my 2007 Titan and my Q60 are plastic, and when they leak it's just better to replace the entire valve cover.
Fwiw the valve covers on my 16 year old Titan don't leak, yet. BTW my Titan has been incredibly reliable, which leads me to believe that the new Z will be too.

 

[because_murica]

Unfortunately, I'm sure the VR has way more plastic than we'd like.

Nissan has been using plastic for a long time now. I believe the valve covers on my 2007 Titan and my Q60 are plastic, and when they leak it's just better to replace the entire valve cover.
Fwiw the valve covers on my 16 year old Titan don't leak, yet. BTW my Titan has been incredibly reliable, which leads me to believe that the new Z will be too.

 

[RicerX]

I didn't watch the above video, but I'll bet that motor blew up because of some over-the-counter bs tune that the Q knobs have been putting on these cars for years. Go to any Infiniti Q facebook group and you'll find a bunch of idiots that bought lease returns from carmax and pushed the cars far beyond their limits and wondered why they broke.

I have been following the development and fielding of this engine for the past 7 years, here's a few key things:

1) As with any newly fielded engines, the 16 and 17 model VR30s had some teething issues. The major ones were oiling issues (not terribly common) and the pulley/belt issue. They were ironed out in production for MY18 and those with affected 16s and 17s got fixes for the pulley/belt issue. I'm not aware of anything done regarding oiling for 16 and 17 owners. However, this is not going to be a problem for the new Z.

The reason why it was spread out across 16 and 17? The current Q60 debuted in MY17, and the early launch production runs were built with the issues the 16 Q50s had. Very few 17 Q50s had the issues. I believe if the actual build date for a Q50 was in calendar year 17 you were in good shape, but I could be wrong.

2) The MY19 Q cars got a hardware revision for the turbos. The turbos are Honeywell turbos IIRC. I believe another hardware revision was made for 2021. It could be possible the 21 revision is to streamline what they need to build for the new Z rather than building/procuring two different kinds of turbos. The key issue with the turbos on the car resulted from not properly engineering a boost-recirculation/purge mechanism into the system. When backing completely off the throttle from full boost, all of the boost is pushed back against the turbine wheels in these cars because there's nowhere else for the boost to go (referenced as a "slam shut" scenario). Repeatedly doing this is what blew up the earlier turbos on these cars over time. Note that the new Z has a boost recirculation setup, and I'd wager if the Q50 gets an update for MY2024, you may see that same setup make it into that car. (My bet is the Q60 is gone after 23 and the Q50 gets the 9 speed and some Z VR30 bits).

Couple of key features to the VR30DDTT:

- The exhaust manifolds are integrated into the block. This makes turbo replacement difficult as there are limited applications in aftermarket (there might even be only one "upgrade" available, and it was released just before COVID). They're twin scroll and the fit is very tight. You can't swap out a manifold for a different one that's compatible with a whole slew of other turbos.

- The VR30 has been deployed in two configurations for Infiniti: the "silver sport" and the "red sport" builds (the Z is getting its own flavor of Red Sport). The Red Sport is done right for the enthusiast - it's not simply cranking the boost up (like many facebook fellas think). The cooling is greatly enhanced (an extra water to air intercooler is added with an extra water pump, larger capacity coolant tank, and a large oil cooler is added), and the optical speed sensors are added to the turbos to fine tune control over the extra boost (which enables roughly double what you find in the silver sport configuration). That speed sensor gauge is now one of the three in the Z's gauge pod. You can view the RPM speed of the turbine wheel for your turbos.

The VR is an open deck block compared to the Supra's B58 is a closed-deck block. The VR's open deck configuration is conducive to extra cooling efficiency, but will be less durable when pushed to extreme power output compared to the B58 with less cylinder wall support among other things. However, there are aftermarket closed-deck VR30's out there (DropBear performance I believe) if you want to go ape.

Both the VR30 and the B58 landed on Ward's Best Engines lists twice.

AMS is your friend - they have beaten the piss out of the VR30 since 2015. They have a partnership with Infiniti to sell parts and tunes while staying within factory warranty. The engine is truly stout as long as you properly maintain it, and if you mod, do it right. I live by the saying "buy once, cry once" after having tried cutting corners on parts and finding out the hard way. Buy the right stuff one time. Putting cheap garbage on a $50k car will eventually cost you a whole lot more than you think you've saved.

Note that many AMS upgrades for the VR30 revolve around oiling and cooling. You can order them through Infiniti and have them install and not void your warranty. I believe they even come with a tune that's powertrain-warranted through AMS as long as all is professionally installed. I really hope to see an extension of this through Nissan for the Z.

 

[Houston.RZ34]

My bet is the Q60 is gone after 23 and the Q50 gets the 9 speed and some Z VR30 bits

Correct, don't forget the Kouki tail lights and new front clip. It's going to be marketed as a "4 Door Z" and "All New" until the electric replacement comes later.

I wouldn't be surprised if the RS400 even gets a stick.

 

[RicerX]

Correct, don't forget the Kouki tail lights and new front clip. It's going to be marketed as a "4 Door Z" and "All New" until the electric replacement comes later.

I wouldn't be surprised if the RS400 even gets a stick.

Don't you dare threaten me with a good time.

If a Q50 comes with a stick, it's a day one order for me. Sorry Z. That would be the "have my cake and eat it too" configuration.

 

[ZDreamer]

The VR30 uses intercoolers much like the S58 (M engines or big bro of B58) or S55 which I think might have better heat management than B58.

before anyone say.... B58 do have larger aftermarket intercooler available in different flavors.

 

[trackratZ]

I didn't watch the above video, but I'll bet that motor blew up because of some over-the-counter bs tune that the Q knobs have been putting on these cars for years. Go to any Infiniti Q facebook group and you'll find a bunch of idiots that bought lease returns from carmax and pushed the cars far beyond their limits and wondered why they broke.

I have been following the development and fielding of this engine for the past 7 years, here's a few key things:

1) As with any newly fielded engines, the 16 and 17 model VR30s had some teething issues. The major ones were oiling issues (not terribly common) and the pulley/belt issue. They were ironed out in production for MY18 and those with affected 16s and 17s got fixes for the pulley/belt issue. I'm not aware of anything done regarding oiling for 16 and 17 owners. However, this is not going to be a problem for the new Z.

The reason why it was spread out across 16 and 17? The current Q60 debuted in MY17, and the early launch production runs were built with the issues the 16 Q50s had. Very few 17 Q50s had the issues. I believe if the actual build date for a Q50 was in calendar year 17 you were in good shape, but I could be wrong.

2) The MY19 Q cars got a hardware revision for the turbos. The turbos are Honeywell turbos IIRC. I believe another hardware revision was made for 2021. It could be possible the 21 revision is to streamline what they need to build for the new Z rather than building/procuring two different kinds of turbos. The key issue with the turbos on the car resulted from not properly engineering a boost-recirculation/purge mechanism into the system. When backing completely off the throttle from full boost, all of the boost is pushed back against the turbine wheels in these cars because there's nowhere else for the boost to go (referenced as a "slam shut" scenario). Repeatedly doing this is what blew up the earlier turbos on these cars over time. Note that the new Z has a boost recirculation setup, and I'd wager if the Q50 gets an update for MY2024, you may see that same setup make it into that car. (My bet is the Q60 is gone after 23 and the Q50 gets the 9 speed and some Z VR30 bits).

Couple of key features to the VR30DDTT:

- The exhaust manifolds are integrated into the block. This makes turbo replacement difficult as there are limited applications in aftermarket (there might even be only one "upgrade" available, and it was released just before COVID). They're twin scroll and the fit is very tight. You can't swap out a manifold for a different one that's compatible with a whole slew of other turbos.

- The VR30 has been deployed in two configurations for Infiniti: the "silver sport" and the "red sport" builds (the Z is getting its own flavor of Red Sport). The Red Sport is done right for the enthusiast - it's not simply cranking the boost up (like many facebook fellas think). The cooling is greatly enhanced (an extra water to air intercooler is added with an extra water pump, larger capacity coolant tank, and a large oil cooler is added), and the optical speed sensors are added to the turbos to fine tune control over the extra boost (which enables roughly double what you find in the silver sport configuration). That speed sensor gauge is now one of the three in the Z's gauge pod. You can view the RPM speed of the turbine wheel for your turbos.

The VR is an open deck block compared to the Supra's B58 is a closed-deck block. The VR's open deck configuration is conducive to extra cooling efficiency, but will be less durable when pushed to extreme power output compared to the B58 with less cylinder wall support among other things. However, there are aftermarket closed-deck VR30's out there (DropBear performance I believe) if you want to go ape.

Both the VR30 and the B58 landed on Ward's Best Engines lists twice.

AMS is your friend - they have beaten the piss out of the VR30 since 2015. They have a partnership with Infiniti to sell parts and tunes while staying within factory warranty. The engine is truly stout as long as you properly maintain it, and if you mod, do it right. I live by the saying "buy once, cry once" after having tried cutting corners on parts and finding out the hard way. Buy the right stuff one time. Putting cheap garbage on a $50k car will eventually cost you a whole lot more than you think you've saved.

Note that many AMS upgrades for the VR30 revolve around oiling and cooling. You can order them through Infiniti and have them install and not void your warranty. I believe they even come with a tune that's powertrain-warranted through AMS as long as all is professionally installed. I really hope to see an extension of this through Nissan for the Z.

These are types of posts I like to see, addresses design and solid mods avail. Thanks!

Since I will see extended tracking with the VR30 "Note that many AMS upgrades for the VR30 revolve around oiling and cooling." this is critical. Those that won't void warranty at early miles are good to know, piece of mind.

 

[ZDreamer]

straight 6 is always more robust and balanced than v6

That's quite a text book statement. I mean, the GTR V6 is a bona fide engine. The major difference between VR30 vs VR38 is the block deck design, VR30 is an open deck while the Godzilla is closed deck. Perhaps B58, closed deck design, will be more popular in the long run.

Not sure why Nissan didn't offer same for VR30... seems like an easy task ... lol ...iono

 

[Houston.RZ34]

Don't you dare threaten me with a good time.

If a Q50 comes with a stick, it's a day one order for me. Sorry Z. That would be the "have my cake and eat it too" configuration.

The stick part is a hope I personally have, everything else is on the table.

 

[MHockey17]

That's quite a text book statement. I mean, the GTR V6 is a bona fide engine. The major difference between VR30 vs VR38 is the block deck design, VR30 is an open deck while the Godzilla is closed deck. Perhaps B58, closed deck design, will be more popular in the long run.

Not sure why Nissan didn't offer same for VR30... seems like an easy task ... lol ...iono

I could be wrong but my understanding is the B58 shares the same block and core components with the significantly higher output S58 (I think major difference is twin turbo setup vs single), hence the closed deck block.

The VR30 n VR38 are part of the same engine family and are similar in architecture but not sure that they share many components; Plus they’re manufactured differently.

 

[because_murica]

I didn't watch the above video, but I'll bet that motor blew up because of some over-the-counter bs tune that the Q knobs have been putting on these cars for years. Go to any Infiniti Q facebook group and you'll find a bunch of idiots that bought lease returns from carmax and pushed the cars far beyond their limits and wondered why they broke.

I have been following the development and fielding of this engine for the past 7 years, here's a few key things:

1) As with any newly fielded engines, the 16 and 17 model VR30s had some teething issues. The major ones were oiling issues (not terribly common) and the pulley/belt issue. They were ironed out in production for MY18 and those with affected 16s and 17s got fixes for the pulley/belt issue. I'm not aware of anything done regarding oiling for 16 and 17 owners. However, this is not going to be a problem for the new Z.

The reason why it was spread out across 16 and 17? The current Q60 debuted in MY17, and the early launch production runs were built with the issues the 16 Q50s had. Very few 17 Q50s had the issues. I believe if the actual build date for a Q50 was in calendar year 17 you were in good shape, but I could be wrong.

2) The MY19 Q cars got a hardware revision for the turbos. The turbos are Honeywell turbos IIRC. I believe another hardware revision was made for 2021. It could be possible the 21 revision is to streamline what they need to build for the new Z rather than building/procuring two different kinds of turbos. The key issue with the turbos on the car resulted from not properly engineering a boost-recirculation/purge mechanism into the system. When backing completely off the throttle from full boost, all of the boost is pushed back against the turbine wheels in these cars because there's nowhere else for the boost to go (referenced as a "slam shut" scenario). Repeatedly doing this is what blew up the earlier turbos on these cars over time. Note that the new Z has a boost recirculation setup, and I'd wager if the Q50 gets an update for MY2024, you may see that same setup make it into that car. (My bet is the Q60 is gone after 23 and the Q50 gets the 9 speed and some Z VR30 bits).

Couple of key features to the VR30DDTT:

- The exhaust manifolds are integrated into the block. This makes turbo replacement difficult as there are limited applications in aftermarket (there might even be only one "upgrade" available, and it was released just before COVID). They're twin scroll and the fit is very tight. You can't swap out a manifold for a different one that's compatible with a whole slew of other turbos.

- The VR30 has been deployed in two configurations for Infiniti: the "silver sport" and the "red sport" builds (the Z is getting its own flavor of Red Sport). The Red Sport is done right for the enthusiast - it's not simply cranking the boost up (like many facebook fellas think). The cooling is greatly enhanced (an extra water to air intercooler is added with an extra water pump, larger capacity coolant tank, and a large oil cooler is added), and the optical speed sensors are added to the turbos to fine tune control over the extra boost (which enables roughly double what you find in the silver sport configuration). That speed sensor gauge is now one of the three in the Z's gauge pod. You can view the RPM speed of the turbine wheel for your turbos.

The VR is an open deck block compared to the Supra's B58 is a closed-deck block. The VR's open deck configuration is conducive to extra cooling efficiency, but will be less durable when pushed to extreme power output compared to the B58 with less cylinder wall support among other things. However, there are aftermarket closed-deck VR30's out there (DropBear performance I believe) if you want to go ape.

Both the VR30 and the B58 landed on Ward's Best Engines lists twice.

AMS is your friend - they have beaten the piss out of the VR30 since 2015. They have a partnership with Infiniti to sell parts and tunes while staying within factory warranty. The engine is truly stout as long as you properly maintain it, and if you mod, do it right. I live by the saying "buy once, cry once" after having tried cutting corners on parts and finding out the hard way. Buy the right stuff one time. Putting cheap garbage on a $50k car will eventually cost you a whole lot more than you think you've saved.

Note that many AMS upgrades for the VR30 revolve around oiling and cooling. You can order them through Infiniti and have them install and not void your warranty. I believe they even come with a tune that's powertrain-warranted through AMS as long as all is professionally installed. I really hope to see an extension of this through Nissan for the Z.

Dropbear has developed a custom exhaust collector that mimics the stock collector so it bolts right up to the head, but allows you to run up to a Garrett G25-660 - which isn't huge, but a decent step up from the small stock Honeywell-Garrett turbos.

660s in conjunction with AMS' closed deck 3.2 (big bore) and new heads should see some impressive numbers.

AMS is also working on an interchiller alongside dailyq50.

 

[takemorepills]

Correct, don't forget the Kouki tail lights and new front clip. It's going to be marketed as a "4 Door Z" and "All New" until the electric replacement comes later.

I wouldn't be surprised if the RS400 even gets a stick.

Do you have any links to the updated Q?

I'm not a big fan of it's current appearance, but a new front clip sounds very appealing.....

 

[trackratZ]

Dropbear has developed a custom exhaust collector that mimics the stock collector so it bolts right up to the head, but allows you to run up to a Garrett G25-660 - which isn't huge, but a decent step up from the small stock Honeywell-Garrett turbos.

660s in conjunction with AMS' closed deck 3.2 (big bore) and new heads should see some impressive numbers.

AMS is also working on an interchiller alongside dailyq50.

How much has the Dropbear been proven? Good to have an option.

 

[takemorepills]

What's up with "pure" turbos? I keep hearing it mentioned with high HP VR builds....