Savagegeese pits the 2023 Nissan Z vs Supra

[240SX]

Reaction from the dark side ?

https://www.supramkv.com/threads/savagegeese-puts-the-z-against-supra.14423/

 

[Z34_2.0]

 

[BurninateZ]

While I agree Toyota has looked ahead and committed to its next Supra back then, and what was available as performance platforms for the most viable joint venture, IMO Toyota should still commit to build its own JDM Supra as a whole.

100% went from excited to uninterested when I learned that the Supra was a reskinned BMW. I have my own reasons for that, but at least the Z caters to my wants. Toyota producing their own Supra would take a lot more consideration.

 

[BurninateZ]

The Z is a GT car at best. That fuel cut is absolutely insane. Now people know you need to put out more money to be competitive in the Z.

Competitive with who?

 

[TheGuverment]

Seems like the guys over on the other side are experiencing dizziness, shortness of breath and a strong sense of “agendas” being pushed. ?

 

[Blackbeard]

im sorry i like all sports car and anything fast but the Oh but atleast its JDM thing is a sorry ass excuse and its starting to make me feel this what i see everytime its said

 

[takemorepills]

im sorry i like all sports car and anything fast but the Oh but atleast its JDM thing is a sorry ass excuse and its starting to make me feel this what i see everytime its said

It's not a "sorry ass excuse" just because other people value different things when it comes to ownership of a machine doesn't make them wrong in how they prefer to spend their money.

I'd rather own a Nissan long term than a BMW, and had the new Supra been a real Toyota, I'd WAY rather own a Toyota than a Nissan. I'd even consider a 86 if it weren't so dinky and underpowered. At least it's Japanese.
Yup, I'm that guy, I won't even buy Korean. I leased a German car 7 years ago and it was in the shop 10 times, including a DSG replacement and a sunroof assembly replacement.
I've owned my Q60 more than 4 years and 55k miles, it still looks and runs like brand new. That's much more important to me than ultimate performance stats and having the shitty but reliable 7AT. I own cars a long time. I'm not convinced by BMW, yet.

I may change my mind if 6MT Supras go on discount and I decide to lease.....

 

[Blackbeard]

It's not a "sorry ass excuse" just because other people value different things when it comes to ownership of a machine doesn't make them wrong in how they prefer to spend their money.

I'd rather own a Nissan long term than a BMW, and had the new Supra been a real Toyota, I'd WAY rather own a Toyota than a Nissan. I'd even consider a 86 if it weren't so dinky and underpowered. At least it's Japanese.
Yup, I'm that guy, I won't even buy Korean. I leased a German car 7 years ago and it was in the shop 10 times, including a DSG replacement and a sunroof assembly replacement.
I've owned my Q60 more than 4 years and 55k miles, it still looks and runs like brand new. That's much more important to me than ultimate performance stats and having the shitty but reliable 7AT. I own cars a long time. I'm not convinced by BMW, yet.

I may change my mind if 6MT Supras go on discount and I decide to lease.....

whatever makes you sleep better at night

 

[takemorepills]

whatever makes you sleep better at night

Exactly!

 

[Drseckzytime]

While I agree Toyota has looked ahead and committed to its next Supra back then, and what was available as performance platforms for the most viable joint venture, IMO Toyota should still commit to build its own JDM Supra as a whole. There are engines available that can be developed in-house, not to mention driveline and interior. I know this is old sentiment. Supra is still a better performer than the new Z, no doubt, but I still can't warm up to its roots. My take is not ALL about performance, and the Z has that 100% heritage.

One reason I didn't go the LS route on the 240Z, the RB26 it is.

I would love Toyota to step up too, but at the time Sports Cars were "dying." But they build the new 86, the Supra, and see other sports cars getting snapped up now, I bet Toyota would build the Supra different if design started today.

That said, I never understood the insult that it's a BMW. The Supra is the best M-car in a long long time, think about that.

100% went from excited to uninterested when I learned that the Supra was a reskinned BMW. I have my own reasons for that, but at least the Z caters to my wants. Toyota producing their own Supra would take a lot more consideration.

Doesn't make sense. The Supra is the best M-car in a long time and super capable.

B58 is one of the best mass produced 6cyl currently.

As far as competitive with who? You don't think the Z is cross shopped with Supra, Mustang, Camaro, M240i? Even a GR86 should be taken into consideration as we seen.

 

[forcer]

and what if the supra gets high pro version also then what, this is a game of what ifs, like what if they would of just done it right in the first place

that wasnt my point at all, my point was that "only moron can expect nissan beat bmw" is a cheap excuse because they absolutely could, they have all the capacity to do that, in either performance or price. they just did not, unfortunately, this time. which is quite disappointing

 

[Blackbeard]

that wasnt my point at all, my point was that "only moron can expect nissan beat bmw" is a cheap excuse because they absolutely could, they have all the capacity to do that, in either performance or price. they just did not, unfortunately, this time. which is quite disappointing

welp i can only say this better sell like hotcakes cause if they dont sell well , no one is going to get a chance to even see a nismo

 

[trackratZ]

That said, I never understood the insult that it's a BMW. The Supra is the best M-car in a long long time, think about that.

Yep Toyota made the best 'marketing' move to quickly deliver the closed deck B58, arguably the best inline six currently, plus its tuning potential. My prior S54 and N54 inlines were some of the smoothest and underrated mills at their times. Then again if Toyota made their own interior to modernize the A80's design I would consider it more, instead it's all BMW eventhough in of itself ergonomically great.

 

[takemorepills]

In a perfect world, Nissan would have brought back their I-6.

They built inline 6's for so long, they have the expertise. They probably have some of the equipment laying around under dusty tarps somewhere.

I'm sure the RB's fundamentals are still solid, they would just have to work on emissions stuff.

Or, they could have done a closed-deck VR.

Toyota, OTOH, has a TT 3.5 (3.4 actually) that would be quite nice in a Toyota-made 2 seater. They really wouldn't need to develop an all-new engine that meets emissions....

Anyway, there is NO WAY that the "ancient" FM platform that underpins the new Z could realistically keep up on a track with the sophisticated chassis of a newer BMW. No way.

It's not just about shocks, roll bars, tires, brakes.

It's also all about angles and geometry of the suspension components, how parts load up and flex during every aspect of driving, how angles, caster and camber are handled as the suspension cycles, how sudden application of power is supported by the design of the chassis...a good chassis design is just as important to putting down power as is the tires and differential.
Bushings that are neither too soft or too stiff, or maybe advanced bushings that have linear or progressive attributes...
How does a chassis handle deceleration/braking near the limits AND whilst turning/changing direction or being loaded/unloaded by G's??? All of these things are the sum of hundreds or thousands of design considerations interacting with each other.

Pretty much all of the handling attributes (and shortcomings) of the new Z were hard-coded into the suspension design over 20 years ago. Coil-overs, roll bars, bushings, etc. aren't as effective as some new geometry would be.

 

[2017370ZBlack]

Everyone on here should cancel their Z orders or future plans to purchase one. That will hopefully make it easier for me to get one. I'll enjoy the less claustrophobic interior, way better looks, avoiding hitting my head on the upper door sill when I get in, and more driver engagement. Plus since I am so familiar with the 370 it will make doing stuff like stereo upgrades easier as well. I'll enjoy the double wishbone front suspension which the Supra doesn't have, and handling will be easily improved by a set of HKS coilovers. I never go out on tracks anyway. Thanks!