Savagegeese pits the 2023 Nissan Z vs Supra

[rocksandblues]

well its a game so toyota says oh yea the hp is 382 and then the brand X comesin going ha are car is 400 hp but then brand why is opps we fudged the numbers its really almost 390 to the wheels my bad, same thing happened in the early 2000 with the srt-4 dodge said it was 215 or what ever but i was dynoing close to 240 and the cobalt ss was to go head to head with it

What i never understood from Nissan is they knew BMW plays this game. The dynos were out for 2 years- 385 at the WHEELS

You promised us 400hp- BUT looks like that is crank hp. Why? Why not provide 400 wheel HP?

 

[Blackbeard]

What i never understood from Nissan is they knew BMW plays this game. The dynos were out for 2 years- 385 at the WHEELS

You promised us 400hp- BUT looks like that is crank hp. Why? Why not provide 400 wheel HP?

maybe they thought 400 crank was enough, i mean its 20x better than the 370z but i guess nissan doesnt cruise the forums like us lol they saw 385 and go aha we got them now

 

[trackratZ]

Let's wait for more objective testing, see if there is consistency, but so far pretty disappointing. Plus nudging $60K or more for a slightly more powerful warmed up 370Z, not good, just not enough content.

I think Nissan knew it can't compete directly with the Supra, but can in the areas of ergonomics, livability, cargo carrying, street dynamics. Those alone will sell to the masses that have to commute, weekend cruises, etc.

 

[Denton]

Let's wait for more objective testing, see if there is consistency, but so far pretty disappointing. Plus nudging $60K or more for a slightly more powerful warmed up 370Z, not good, just not enough content.

I think Nissan knew it can't compete directly with the Supra, but can in the areas of ergonomics, livability, cargo carrying, street dynamics. Those alone will sell to the masses that have to commute, weekend cruises, etc.

Smaller but taller trunk tho, no? Or am I totally off the mark here?

 

[Kbl911]

Let's wait for more objective testing, see if there is consistency, but so far pretty disappointing. Plus nudging $60K or more for a slightly more powerful warmed up 370Z, not good, just not enough content.

I think Nissan knew it can't compete directly with the Supra, but can in the areas of ergonomics, livability, cargo carrying, street dynamics. Those alone will sell to the masses that have to commute, weekend cruises, etc.

I agree that the Z is likely more daily-livable than the Supra (I daily a 370, so it'll be similar in that regard) but I just keep coming back to the price, which you alluded to. Man, I really think that is part of the reason that people, myself included, have been more inclined to harshness re the new model - it just seems too expensive for what it is.

 

[trackratZ]

I agree that the Z is likely more daily-livable than the Supra (I daily a 370, so it'll be similar in that regard) but I just keep coming back to the price, which you alluded to. Man, I really think that is part of the reason that people, myself included, have been more inclined to harshness re the new model - it just seems too expensive for what it is.

I'm with you. I mean, if the Z comes with adaptive dampers (greatest need), better brakes, tires, seats (Recaros?) heck I'd be in line for one at that price point. It will be a complete proper 'sports car' package, not just a GT car.

 

[forcer]

I don't think any reasonable Z enthusiast ever said that.

BMW is very hard to beat. Only a moron would think a company that makes Leafs and Rogues could make a car that beats BMW at it's own game. GT-R doesn't count due to it's price bracket

lol what a convenient bs to say. nissan has one of the richest performance history with nismo. gtr was beating sht out of bmw when it was released, in both accel and price. i also would be happy to see what you ll say if/when nismo version will be more powerful than 397bhp and around supra price?

 

[forcer]

Kudos on the vid lads.

Can someone more knowledgeable in the matter than I, explain to me why Toyota/BMW settle for the advertised 382HP when it's substantially higher?

What's the thought process behind that?

Pretty full on hearing the Supras power plant being pushed to 650hp without a sweat broken but anything over 550hp for the Z (I'll have to rewatch to confirm) being a gamble as old mate Tuner said.

But the Supras visibility and liveability in general don't do much for me. Nor does the disconnect as far as driver input and vehicle response.

Still feeling the Z is the go. I'm no pro driver and achieving results at the very boundaries of performance just won't apply to me personally.

yeah but i guess VR38 swap is really the way to go to punish supras. Fosberg already did that, i wonder if they gonna produce engine mounts for the Z

 

[takemorepills]

lol what a convenient bs to say. nissan has one of the richest performance history with nismo. gtr was beating sht out of bmw when it was released, in both accel and price. i also would be happy to see what you ll say if/when nismo version will be more powerful than 397bhp and around supra price?

Wow....

 

[Blackbeard]

lol what a convenient bs to say. nissan has one of the richest performance history with nismo. gtr was beating sht out of bmw when it was released, in both accel and price. i also would be happy to see what you ll say if/when nismo version will be more powerful than 397bhp and around supra price?

and what if the supra gets high pro version also then what, this is a game of what ifs, like what if they would of just done it right in the first place

 

[takemorepills]

and what if the supra gets high pro version also then what, this of a game of what ifs, like what if they would of just done it right in the first place

Yup, there's so much more on the table in the B58. BMW could probably program another 80hp into them without even upgrading any hardware.

 

[jdrxb9]

Like they said…the 86 is not in the same league

The 86 is closer to the Z than the Z is to the Supra...
(@33:52)

 

[BraveDemon]

With the ADMs I’m reading about it in other threads it’s hard to justify the cost of getting a Z performance right now. Particularly when there’s a competitor vehicle that’s close in price and objectively a better sports car.

However, Z to me (like the Supra) is an emotional purchase. I just want it period, haters be damned…. as long as I’m not going to get fleeced by dealer markups.

 

[Kbl911]

Yup, there's so much more on the table in the B58. BMW could probably program another 80hp into them without even upgrading any hardware.

Whereas it does definitely feel like the VR30 is significantly closer to its edge (while maintaining factory mechanical components), from what I've read. Granted, I am admittedly no longer into the tuning game so I'm absolutely not an authority on the matter. It simply seems like the engine in the Z is a nice, relatively reliable sports car powerplant and not ideal for aggressive builds (the open-deck is a factor, of course). Which is largely fine ?

 

[Kbl911]

The 86 is closer to the Z than the Z is to the Supra...
(@33:52)

Yeah, but that's missing loads of context.

In this situation, with the (admittedly small) upgrades they made to it, the GR86 was closer to the Z's track time than the Z was to the Supra's. Let's not generalize it to say that the cars are even in the same stratosphere in terms of speed and acceleration - they even say as much like 30 seconds later. I think that what West Aussie was referencing, there.