Savagegeese pits the 2023 Nissan Z vs Supra

[trackratZ]

That said, I never understood the insult that it's a BMW. The Supra is the best M-car in a long long time, think about that.

Yep Toyota made the best 'marketing' move to quickly deliver the closed deck B58, arguably the best inline six currently, plus its tuning potential. My prior S54 and N54 inlines were some of the smoothest and underrated mills at their times. Then again if Toyota made their own interior to modernize the A80's design I would consider it more, instead it's all BMW eventhough in of itself ergonomically great.

 

[takemorepills]

In a perfect world, Nissan would have brought back their I-6.

They built inline 6's for so long, they have the expertise. They probably have some of the equipment laying around under dusty tarps somewhere.

I'm sure the RB's fundamentals are still solid, they would just have to work on emissions stuff.

Or, they could have done a closed-deck VR.

Toyota, OTOH, has a TT 3.5 (3.4 actually) that would be quite nice in a Toyota-made 2 seater. They really wouldn't need to develop an all-new engine that meets emissions....

Anyway, there is NO WAY that the "ancient" FM platform that underpins the new Z could realistically keep up on a track with the sophisticated chassis of a newer BMW. No way.

It's not just about shocks, roll bars, tires, brakes.

It's also all about angles and geometry of the suspension components, how parts load up and flex during every aspect of driving, how angles, caster and camber are handled as the suspension cycles, how sudden application of power is supported by the design of the chassis...a good chassis design is just as important to putting down power as is the tires and differential.
Bushings that are neither too soft or too stiff, or maybe advanced bushings that have linear or progressive attributes...
How does a chassis handle deceleration/braking near the limits AND whilst turning/changing direction or being loaded/unloaded by G's??? All of these things are the sum of hundreds or thousands of design considerations interacting with each other.

Pretty much all of the handling attributes (and shortcomings) of the new Z were hard-coded into the suspension design over 20 years ago. Coil-overs, roll bars, bushings, etc. aren't as effective as some new geometry would be.

 

[2017370ZBlack]

Everyone on here should cancel their Z orders or future plans to purchase one. That will hopefully make it easier for me to get one. I'll enjoy the less claustrophobic interior, way better looks, avoiding hitting my head on the upper door sill when I get in, and more driver engagement. Plus since I am so familiar with the 370 it will make doing stuff like stereo upgrades easier as well. I'll enjoy the double wishbone front suspension which the Supra doesn't have, and handling will be easily improved by a set of HKS coilovers. I never go out on tracks anyway. Thanks!

 

[2017370ZBlack]

False.

Nissan's chief engineer disagrees.

 

[bboypuertoroc]

Nissan's chief engineer disagrees.

Let's revisit what you said right quick...

550HP in a rear-wheel drive car like the Z is too much anyway.

Doubt Nissan's chief engineer has anything to do with any other RWD car, let alone a RWD car "like the Z". 550rwhp ain't shit on a RWD sports car. If 550 is too much, it might be time to learn how to drive a RWD sports car.

 

[BurninateZ]

Doesn't make sense. The Supra is the best M-car in a long time and super capable.

B58 is one of the best mass produced 6cyl currently.

As far as competitive with who? You don't think the Z is cross shopped with Supra, Mustang, Camaro, M240i? Even a GR86 should be taken into consideration as we seen.

No one is denying the Supra performs better, but I don't value 'a bit better' performance over everything else. I'm not competing with it.

I think it's great that the Supra exists, but it's not what I'm looking for.

Tbh, if I we're a bit more budget conscious I'd get a GR86 without hesitation.

 

[ZDreamer]

Everyone on here should cancel their Z orders or future plans to purchase one. That will hopefully make it easier for me to get one. I'll enjoy the less claustrophobic interior, way better looks, avoiding hitting my head on the upper door sill when I get in, and more driver engagement. Plus since I am so familiar with the 370 it will make doing stuff like stereo upgrades easier as well. I'll enjoy the double wishbone front suspension which the Supra doesn't have, and handling will be easily improved by a set of HKS coilovers. I never go out on tracks anyway. Thanks!

I agreed! lol ...

 

[Bobcat]

After watching the video, I don't think I want either car now. I'll stick with my 1320 until the "e" muscle cars arrive.

 

[DevonK]

If E-cars are as boring to drive IRL as they are in sims (and from my very limited experience so far they seem to be), regardless of how fast they are, I'll keep drinking the dino juice....

 

[Bobcat]

Yeah, I'm not holding my breath either. But the rendering of the new Challenger/Charger or whatever if will be called looks pretty sweet from the front at least. I heard they are going to add some kind of decent sound to it that is supposed to increase with throttle response. AWD would be good for the winter where I live and if it ends up being over 600hp and under 60k, it may be worth checking out. I'm still worried about the charging stations in mostly rural areas like I live and the electric grid in general. I would have to get a generator at a minimum also and see what the cost of electric is compared to gas is a couple years too. I hear its only like 8% cheaper to own and operate an electric car compared to a sport/muscle car at the moment too so not that much difference to make up for the sound and soul of an ICE powered car, but we will see...

 

[indio22]

Yeah, I'm not holding my breath either. But the rendering of the new Challenger/Charger or whatever if will be called looks pretty sweet from the front at least. I heard they are going to add some kind of decent sound to it that is supposed to increase with throttle response. AWD would be good for the winter where I live and if it ends up being over 600hp and under 60k, it may be worth checking out. I'm still worried about the charging stations in mostly rural areas like I live and the electric grid in general. I would have to get a generator at a minimum also and see what the cost of electric is compared to gas is a couple years too. I hear its only like 8% cheaper to own and operate an electric car compared to a sport/muscle car at the moment too so not that much difference to make up for the sound and soul of an ICE powered car, but we will see...

If down the road I could pick up a first gen BRZ chassis with clapped out motor/trans, and for several thousand install an electric motor and battery pack kit, I'd be down for something like that. Assuming we see electric motors/packs further downsized with kits and price reductions, to fit reasonably under a low engine bay as in the BRZ. That chassis with a decent kicking electric motor could be fun. That's the sort of thing I hoping for down the road from electric. (I hope we also still have petrol manual shifting vehicles as well.)

 

[DEUPRA]

Posting the same question that I posted in the Supra forums:

For the Performance trim at $50+k the Z isn't the Supra killer that some may have hoped, but at what $ value would the Z be a Supra killer of VALUE? Would a base Z (40$K) with a performance pack (LSD/Brakes/wheels/tires) priced under $45k be a Supra killer? Or if Nissan could keep the $40k base trim and just add an LSD, would it be a Supra and GR86 killer? Any track rat would be upgrading the brakes/wheels/tires/suspension on a performance trim Z or Supra, so this could be the potential ultimate tuner car at $40k with an LSD.

 

[trackratZ]

Any track rat would be upgrading the brakes/wheels/tires/suspension on a performance trim Z or Supra, so this could be the potential ultimate tuner car at $40k with an LSD.

Even without Nissan's LSD, add your own tried and true Quaife or OS Giken which are more bulletproof anyway. Just take the base Sport and upgrade the rest as mentioned, plus seats. It'll be a lighter, more competitive Z for sure. I'm still contemplating this since the Performance will be raked with ADM silly, less likely the unwanted Sport lol.

Sample config: (paint +$895, cargo net +$35, that's it) not bad just under $42K
https://www.nissanusa.com/shopping-tools/build-price/c/29517/BABey:AwpEKDaD0

I can start the build from there, with much better performance upgrades.

 

[MHockey17]

Even without Nissan's LSD, add your own tried and true Quaife or OS Giken which are more bulletproof anyway. Just take the base Sport and upgrade the rest as mentioned, plus seats. It'll be a lighter, more competitive Z for sure. I'm still contemplating this since the Performance will be raked with ADM silly, less likely the unwanted Sport lol.

Sample config: (paint +$895, cargo net +$35, that's it) not bad just under $42K
https://www.nissanusa.com/shopping-tools/build-price/c/29517/BABey:AwpEKDaD0

I can start the build from there, with much better performance upgrades.

IMO, this has always been the ethos of the Z cars; it’s not gonna blow away the competition or lead the pack, but its got solid bones and is (usually) cheap enough to build into whatever kind of car you want for a good price.

Plus the aftermarket is already pretty mature for this platform, should be possible to do full builds from day 1.