Performance Z Manual Swap

[FSUZ33]

I could write a book here, but I’ll try not to.

The Pro/Con list with swapping a Z from AT to MT is IMMENSELY weighted toward the Con side.

The only Pro I can think of is that a manual would be more fun to drive. But there’s two asterisks by that one:
1. You could spend, idk, $15k+?, and not have a reliable vehicle, and a much less valuable vehicle as well.
2. There’s also a non-zero % chance the swap is great, but the time, effort and money spent will make you wish it was more of a difference than it actually made.

If it was a ‘68 Camaro I’d say go for it, but these computers on wheels can easily turn into rolling electrical dumpster fires if you don’t have everything perfect. And it takes time, money and an incredibly knowledgeable people intimately familiar with the platform AND the care and attention to detail to make sure everything is perfect.

At the end of the day, that risk adds up to spending a lot more on a car that you’re already a little underwater on, and even if the swap is perfect it will not have the value of a factory AT or MT. If it has gremlins, you’re even further underwater. Like looking UP at the Titanic.

I don’t know your lien vs value situation, but my gut says you’ll put more money in a swap than you will add trading. @MCN1SMO summed it up for me, “there is no possible scenario where trading isnt a better option” And trading, you’ll most likely end up with something that still has plenty of warranty.

i just hope it all works out for you!

 

[Meg_Z]

Agree 100%. My 1998 six speed Z28 was probably the most fun I've ever had before the Z.

The only problem for me is people trashing this auto transmission like it's not a good setup, that's just nonsense. Everyone has a preference but that does not mean the other way is not a good system. This same auto transmission is used in some very high end vehicles all over the world, it's a very nice reliable "bullet proof" transmission. Nissan did good with it.

All that being said, it would take more guts than I have to swap a drivetrain system on a brand new car like this. I wish the OP nothing but luck and look forward to the posts if he does it!

I truly don’t care what someone else drives, manual, auto etc.. The most important thing is that you’re happy with it. I don’t think the auto is trash and don’t think many if any in this thread has said that. What many have said it’s better to trade in his car than try to retrofit a new manual transmission in it.

 

[5amp5on]

I truly don’t care what someone else drives, manual, auto etc.. The most important thing is that you’re happy with it. I don’t think the auto is trash and don’t think many if any in this thread has said that. What many have said it’s better to trade in his car than try to retrofit a new manual transmission in it.

Yeah I wasn't just referencing this thread. Kind of a hijack. Sorry OP!

 

[Meg_Z]

Yeah I wasn't just referencing this thread. Kind of a hijack. Sorry OP!

NP and you didn’t hijack anything!

 

[RobotAZ]

1985 Mustang: yes.

2023+ Z: no.

 

[Drago86]

Curious, has anyone here with the 9spd auto swapped to the 6spd manual? If so what did that entail? Other than the trans itself, what else? The TCU? The interior shifter panel thing?>

I would just buy the manual or trade the auto in for a manual if that's the situation you're in. MT/AT swaps are practical on older cars where parts are a bit cheaper and more readily available and the exact car you want is harder to find. There isn't much reason to do it when there's plenty of manual Z's available for the exact same price as A/T's. The swap will likely depreciate the car a ton and cost you thousands more than just buying/trading your desired transmission type.

It is your car though, so do whatever you want based on your own needs/likes/whims, not everything needs to be a sound financial decision in life. If you really want to do it for the challenge or learning aspect or whatever, got for it and don't let us forum nay-sayers stop you.


Parts you need for sure: Manual transmission for the Z, Manual driveshaft, Clutch slave cylinder, clutch kit (friction plate, pressure plate, throw-out bearing), Pilot bearing, Clutch master cylinder, Clutch pedal assembly, Manual shifter assembly, Manual shifter trim assembly with shift boot, Shift knob, A bottle of DOT 3 brake fluid.

Parts you MIGHT need and/or optional: Manual ECU ( if the auto cant be re-programmed), rear diff temp sensor (only if LSD equipped, I head the autos might lack this?), S-mode switch(replaces the auto drive mode switch if performance trim). Manual floor mats. There may be various rubber chassis gromets/boots/seals that are different(like where the clutch pedal pierces the firewall and where the shifter pierces the trans tunnel to enter the transmission). There may(more than likely) also be wiring harness differences (not sure if they share the same harness, might have to swap or splice).

Good luck and have fun, whatever you decide. The Manual is a blast to drive.

 

[NocturnalEmber]

I've been watching this thread develop over the days. Here's my take (It jumps around a bit, bear with me):

Source: I've been turning wrenches as a hobby for the better part of half my life and I've manual swapped cars before.

Let me throw down a blanket statement, I've heard this question asked over many communities involving a wide range of cars, and my general reply is that *if you have to ask the question, generally you are not at the skill level where you should attempt it*

Could that be wrong? Sure, it's a blanket statement, but generally the ones who can undertake such a task, especially on a newer car already know where to start.

Can you do it? Nothing is impossible, but if you look at the cost v benefit and the effort involved you will generally find yourself in a blanket "no." Now, if the car has some extreme sentimental value to you or resale value isn't an option this can blur or eliminate lines entirely, emotion is a hell of a drug. Being that your justification is that you owe more on the car than its worth, I'd venture to say that isn't the case, but you didn't really specify so guessing won't really help in my determination, that's a call you'd have to make.

The issue with the Z, or any late model car isn't can you swap it. The components were built to fit the car after all, those bolt up fine in most cases, though Murphy's law loves to apply to cars (for example: Auto vs manual second gen RX-7's have different transmission mount bolt holes on the chassis for auto vs manual cars because the transmissions are physically longer/shorter between the two, that's an easy fix, but just goes to show that the easiest stage isn't always a bolt up solution.)

Anyway, back to my point; The problem with a swap like this is that a newer car is built with/around modern technology (CANbus, etc.) Bolting the clutch assembly up, flywheel, trans, etc isn't the issue, its getting these components to mesh with the auto counterparts the car is expecting to see.

The 'easy' solution to this? Buy the corresponding manual harness from the same model year car and hope it fits, and by that I mean chassis harness, etc. At this point you aren't just swapping the transmission, you are changing out every auto-manual specific wiring component in the car, which is likely prohibitively expensive and extremely time consuming.

Let's say you only swap the physical components over - I haven't looked at the wiring diagrams for the auto-manual differences but I can tell off the top of my head the auto car will not be looking for a clutch safety switch to allow the starter to engage because auto cars didn't have that, the ecu/bcm will be looking for the neutral/park switch on the transmission.

If this is just a simple open/closed circuit on both cars, you could get lucky and just install and run wires from the clutch switch to the auto harness and hope that works (this is overlooking the obvious elephant in the room that your auto cluster will still say "depress brake to start engine" instead of "depress clutch switch to drive" like the manual clusters say.

Next problem, reverse. How is the car going to know how to trigger the reverse lights/backup camera? Assuming its again just a simple open/closed switch you'd again have to hope its a simple switch on the auto trans and depin/transfer the plugs over to the manual trans to get it to plug into your auto body harness. (Note, this is assuming its a simple open/closed switch on the trans and the reverse lights and backup cam use the same trigger on the trans, if they use the shifter position sensor on the manual cars rather than on the physical trans itself or if they use both, well, you see how it's getting complicated here.)

If the car uses the CANbus for any of this, and I'd bet that it does, you're going to be extremely hard pressed to fool/spoof the communication. Those components are going to be looking for a signal from the auto components for all of the above, which goes back to the argument that you will need the manual components and I'm not just talking wiring harnesses here, you'd need the manual specific components such as BCM, etc.

Furthermore, assuming you do get those components, they likely need to be programmed to the car, so unless you have a subscription to consult and the tools to go with it, you're going to have to do a fair amount of convincing to get a dealer to program all of that, which they might, but you're expecting a dealer tech to do a job they've likely never done before. I'm not trying to insult dealer techs here, but unless they have a good intuition and technical intelligence/literacy, they likely wouldn't have a clue on what they're doing. Work like this requires some abstract thinking and troubleshooting. Certain components might need programed first, etc.

If you *really* want to track down and purchase all of those components, swap every single one of them into the car, and then take a gamble on if the dealer can program it all, sure, you can probably have a running manual swapped car. So can it be done? Yeah it likely can, but you'd be highly incentivized to just trade it for a manual car.

 

[VR30Infection]

tough crowd. I say if it’s what you want to do then research the crap out of it. Make phone calls to places like SpecialtyZ and ask a lot of questions. Seb put a BMW DCT in his 370. So anything’s possible. Good luck if you decide to make it happen.

 

[Mugzilla]

tough crowd. I say if it’s what you want to do then research the crap out of it. Make phone calls to places like SpecialtyZ and ask a lot of questions. Seb put a BMW DCT in his 370. So anything’s possible. Good luck if you decide to make it happen.

It definitely will not be cheaper to trade at this point. A new 6spd costs ~$2500 alone, so the labor plus other parts needed will probably be another $2500. If it was cheaper to trade I wouldn't be considering a swap. The auto trans is just ugh. Other than the track it's abysmal. Also not being able to put the car in neutral while keeping the door open is retarded. Can't coast to a red light on neutral. I tried to put the car in neutral while the car was in motion about 5mph (decelerating) and the car jerked forward as if I hit the brake and heard a loud bang. Should not do that. I've put cars in neutral while in motion in the past and never had an issue.

You forgot that you'll probably want a MT LSD rear pumpkin. The AT LSD in the perf is geared too low. With careful timing, and a coupon code, they can be had for about $2050 delivered.

Could you find a totaled 6MT car, pull the pedals, etc? Sure. The computer is gonna hate you. Dash is gonna hate you.

And I'll say it again; The AT will beat me in a line every day of the week and 2x on Sunday. But I'll have more fun, and probably be faster on the twisties, and not worry about "being able to rev it at the stop light," or whatever other fantasies 9AT folks have.

 

[VR30Infection]

Personally, I have the perf 6spd. Wouldn’t have it any other way. It is literally the reason I pulled the trigger on a new Z. If it were only available in an auto I would have purchased something else. I could care less of the auto is faster. I find autos to be less engaging and therefore less fun. That is ALL subjective though. To each their own. If our fellow enthusiast wants to drop a slow manual into is faster auto, then more power to him. It might be expensive and it might be a pain to do. But I don’t see it ruining anything or causing the car to be less reliable as long as everything is done correctly. If I were to do it though, I would maybe check into a bell housing for a magnum t56. But now we’re getting crazy. Lol.

 

[Thefunk]

Again this was just an idea not a goal of mine, I was mostly interested in the technical aspects of the swap, not the practicality and economic aspects. Now that I see what's involved I understand why people would say just trade for a manual. But even trading at this point isn't practical either. My friends swap just started to show some issues now and I'm closely following his journey. Very interesting stuff.

Also idk if I mentioned this already but the trash talk about the 9AT was 99% rant and venting frustration. It's fine for normal driving, and excellent on fuel economy which can be useful sometimes like driving 3hrs to a track where there are no gas stations near by. I originally wanted to get the manual performance but my friend who got a manual BRZ stalled at a red light (he's learning) and the person behind him didn't see him and rear ended him. I love using the paddles on the track and touge runs tho. Fun factors are completely subjective.

 

[FSUZ33]

I think the further along we go the wilder people will get with modification. It's hard to make a decision with a complicated mod when your only frame of reference is, "well, this one guy in SoCal did it..." It's still rare for owners to see other Zs on the street, so the solid knowledge base for big mechanical and electrical changes just isn't there yet.

I can't even find a video of changing the wheel studs on a '24+ NISMO (specifically because there may be a catch with the different front calipers/rotors/hubs/whatever). I'm capable of doing it without a video, but was surprised I couldn't find one.

 

[Thefunk]

It's hard to make a decision with a complicated mod when your only frame of reference is, "well, this one guy in SoCal did it..."

I only mentioned this reference because he has a 370z and I thought maybe they'd be similar but as I'm learning they're actually not in terms of powertrain.

I think the further along we go the wilder people will get with modification.

How's this for a wild (but possible) mod: VR38 and AWD swap.

 

[VR30Infection]

If you look it up, people have manual swapped q50 and q60 vr30 cars already. So. It’s already a thing. Not saying you should or that it would be super cost effective, but it’s not rocket science.

 

[NocturnalEmber]

If you look it up, people have manual swapped q50 and q60 vr30 cars already. So. It’s already a thing. Not saying you should or that it would be super cost effective, but it’s not rocket science.

Q50's/Q60's are also pretty dated. If I had to guess, Nissan didn't change much since they were introduced over a decade ago. If I recall, I even remember reading the ECU has a 'manual' mode programmed into it that I think can be changed over..maybe in consult? I doubt the Z's would be that lucky.

Random tangent:

What confuses me about the Q50 and Q60 swap videos is that they use the shifter trim from the European spec cars to just drop in and make that essentially a plug and play solution, yet when it comes time to do the pedal box, they go on this gigantic tirade about fabricating a custom pedal setup.

...they do realize they could have just sourced the OEM pedal setup from a euro car too..right? Unless I'm missing something.