Does anyone actually want an automatic?

[Denver the Last Dinosaur]

if the Z is avail with a true dual-clutch (DCT, PDK) auto, that might be more game-changer for manual buyers.

NEVER!!

 

[morgand]

I'll break the trend, I am an auto buyer.

Whilst I understand the romantic, historic, sports car notion of stick shift, the reality is modern auto's are always faster, including around race tracks.

But then I like my Drama!! Select Gearbox (DSG) in my R32. It's had a tune and you can set the up and down shift points based on road speed, so it's doing everything a person is doing on entry and exit of the corner, including a satisfying throttle blip to rev match.

Today the race cars that are still manual, noting F1 and Indy cars are already automatic transmission, only use the clutch to start and stop, as they just bash through the manual in sequence.

Now if it was a sequential shifter, then maybe the manual would have some slight appeal to me.

 

[Kbl911]

For "someone for whom the acceleration" is actually an important buying point should be shopping for cars to go on the track and will largely be gutting it anyway for race modification. That means they can buy whatever cheap car they, or their sponsorship, can afford and then refit it to be electric for the supposed "acceleration benefit". The "bulbous electric sedans" will still out-perform the petrol "sub-compact, 2-door, sports car".

Untrue. Effortless acceleration is of major benefit both on and off of a track. Does that really require justification? I feel like we are all aware of that. The vast majority of drivers will *never* drive any vehicle in a track setting, whether it be their own vehicle or someone else's. The same way most SUV owners will never take their vehicles off road, at least not deliberately. That's just how it is. So, the idea that anyone interested in acceleration, full-stop, is or should be looking for a track car is fundamentally silly.

Again, people shopping for a Z are already looking at sports cars, they're clearly looking for a certain size, aesthtic, and set of general vehicular attributes. So the idea that "random electric sedan" is quicker-accelerating is irrelevant to that shopping process. Someone looking for beach attire is unlikely to be swayed to buy a wool overcoat regardless of its various qualities.

Overall, I'm simply saying you're making an illogical and unnecessary point.

 

[indio22]

86 are both 6 speeds, so the final drive comparison is interesting.

However, with the Z it'll be 6 speed or 9 speed. No sense in comparing their final drives

For the Z, I can't seem to find the auto and manual diff gear specs listed anywhere. Only listed is what are called "final drive" (3.538 MT vs 3.133 AT) , which it's unclear if they mean diff gears or actual final drive with the highest trans gear selected.

But anyway, here are the manual and auto trans gear sets:

	MT	AT
1st	3.795	5.425
2nd	2.325	3.263
3rd	1.625	2.250
4th	1.272	1.649
5th	1.000	1.221
6th	0.795	1.000
7th		0.862
8th		0.713
9th		0.597

So overall, the auto Z trans digs deeper and also allows for lower high speed cruising revs. Interested to confirm the diff gears, if they are different for the manual and auto vehicles, and the overall final ratios/rpms.

 

[relyt]

The only way I would consider getting one without a clutch is if it was a true dual clutch automatic. I don't care that this one is faster than the manual even with a torque converter. Faster isn't what I care about.

 

[Go2ZZZ]

The only way I would consider getting one without a clutch is if it was a true dual clutch automatic. I don't care that this one is faster than the manual even with a torque converter. Faster isn't what I care about.

Get a brz if you don’t care for speed and want a manual. Save your $

 

[Denton]

Any real car enthusiast will buy the manual, remove the manual, and replace it with an 18 speed from a semi.

For the extra purity...

Ya know. Since the only thing that matters about the drive is the is shifting?

 

[Denver the Last Dinosaur]

noting F1 and Indy cars are already automatic transmission

Nope. F1 cars are semi-automatic. They've simply switched to flappy paddles and no clutch pushing (partly to save cockpit space and weight), but the driver is still in full control of which gear is used when. No race driver uses an automatic in automatic mode ... it's simply ludicrous to do so.

 

[Denver the Last Dinosaur]

Again, people shopping for a Z are already looking at sports cars, they're clearly looking for a certain size, aesthtic, and set of general vehicular attributes.

Again, 0-60 timers are completely irrelevant on the road. If that's a hugely important reason for you buying any road car, then you're simply either a hoon or an idiot, or both. Either way you're likely to lose your license pretty quickly, but hopefully won't kill anyone else in the process.

 

[Donalex]

For some people who buy a Z because of the speed and handling, it's like someone buying an AR15 just in case they encounter an armed intruder.

Most will shit their pants upon encountering forces beyond their limits.

 

[Kbl911]

Again, 0-60 timers are completely irrelevant on the road. If that's a hugely important reason for you buying any road car, then you're simply either a hoon or an idiot, or both. Either way you're likely to lose your license pretty quickly, but hopefully won't kill anyone else in the process.

I'm just going to ignore the lunacy of this statement.

 

[Denver the Last Dinosaur]

Most will shit their pants upon encountering forces beyond their limits.

Yep. Most of these idiots whining on about 0-60 times will never even attempt to experience those times on a track, let alone the road ... which simply makes even less relevant.

There's a similar thing with people who buy laptop computers simply because it's the "cool" thing to do ... yet the laptop never ever leaves their desk and wall socket. For the same price they could easily have bought a desktop computer that was more powerful and with a bigger display, but that isn't as "cool" to their friends.

 

[Denver the Last Dinosaur]

And here (as posted by V35 in another topic) is what happens to the few such morons who do stupidly attempt it.

​

The morons get what they deserve ... the problem is they often kill someone else.

 

[jdm-rhd]

Any real car enthusiast will buy the manual, remove the manual, and replace it with an 18 speed from a semi.

For the extra purity...

Ya know. Since the only thing that matters about the drive is the is shifting?

 

[morgand]

Nope. F1 cars are semi-automatic. They've simply switched to flappy paddles and no clutch pushing (partly to save cockpit space and weight), but the driver is still in full control of which gear is used when. No race driver uses an automatic in automatic mode ... it's simply ludicrous to do so.

We can argue about semantics, I sense you're that guy, but no clutch and paddles to change gears would hardly be called a manual stick shift, and can clearly be duplicated in manual mode of the automatic transmission in the Z.