Car and Driver: Z vs. Mustang Mach 1

[takemorepills]

I like the metrics C&D recorded of the new Z.

Acceleration is strong, and easily beats the competitor, especially with the boosted in-gear pulls.
Handling is below expectations, but pretty much everyone condemns the stock tires as total garbage, so should be easy to get tire-based metrics into competitive numbers with better tires...

The braking though.... I like the looks of the Akebononos on my Q60, but they don't seem to be as high performance as the looks and 12 pistons would suggest. The Z is very underperforming in the braking metrics, and it makes me wonder if better tires and pads are enough?

The way I would drive a Z would be totally satisfying with the numbers it puts up. I've never been to a track, so I doubt I'd ever notice those deficiencies.

 

[RicerX]

I remember distinctly that a tire upgrade alone on the Nismo 370Z netted over half a lateral G increase on the skidpad some years ago.

If anything is consistent in all the comparisons we have seen so far, it's that the Z needs a freakin tire to match the car's capability. I really hope they make something happen with a Nismo model and put something serious on it.

I get Nissan is in bed with Bridgestone, but even Nissan knew better than to put anything Bridgestone on the GT-R - it got custom Dunlops from the start. If you look closely, the Z Proto never had Bridgestones on it. It had Dunlops.

 

[280driver]

BTW, it’s worth mentioning that the original ’69-‘70 era versions of these cars were a mismatch as well. The Z and the Mach 1 have never targeted the same audience.

 

[2017370ZBlack]

Ford should be embarrassed. Z has 80 less HP and terrible stock tires, yet beat the Mach 1 "muscle car" 0-60, 0-100, and top gear on a roll 30-50 and 50-70, all for less $$$$. The Z is the true muscle car in this comparison. Car & Driver can eat a bag of Richards.

 

[Blackbeard]

Ford should be embarrassed. Z has 80 less HP and terrible stock tires, yet beat the Mach 1 "muscle car" 0-60, 0-100, and top gear on a roll 30-50 and 50-70, all for less $$$$. The Z is the true muscle car in this comparison. Car & Driver can eat a bag of Richards.

that was bad driving thats all that was

 

[Drseckzytime]

They would have done better to just do a GT with performance pack. The Mach 1 is a serious track car. It's downforce is strong. Just like a SS 1LE isn't set up for drag racing, it's set up for track performance. Cup 2's are cheaters though. Amazing tires for grip in dry, despite kinda-sorta not being a R-compound. I know, I had them.

That grip could expose some other flaws though in the Z. It rocks around like a boat already for example, toss more grip into the tires, and might not be pretty.

Those scuffed brembos on the Z are a real problem too. Should've had better, and, for it's price should've had adjustable suspension.

 

[BobDigi5060]

Ford should be embarrassed. Z has 80 less HP and terrible stock tires, yet beat the Mach 1 "muscle car" 0-60, 0-100, and top gear on a roll 30-50 and 50-70, all for less $$$$. The Z is the true muscle car in this comparison. Car & Driver can eat a bag of Richards.

You should be embarrassed!

 

[Houston.RZ34]

Z vs GT Premium is a fair fight, Mach 1 is the "Nismo" Mustang - it's the GT350 replacement.

What's next? - Z vs SS/1LE?, Z vs Hellcat?, Z vs GRMN Supra?, Z vs M2/3/4?, Z vs <Insert AMG here>?, Z vs Cayman GT4?

 

[MHockey17]

The braking though.... I like the looks of the Akebononos on my Q60, but they don't seem to be as high performance as the looks and 12 pistons would suggest. The Z is very underperforming in the braking metrics, and it makes me wonder if better tires and pads are enough?

I think braking would also qualify as a “tire-based” metric; With grippier tires and a more performance-oriented pad compound Id expect much better brake distance.

Don’t think the calipers themselves are necessarily to blame. Although the increased weight over the previous 370Z Sport is surely a factor here, and makes me wonder at what weight is the Akebono system overwhelmed . The comparably more massive Brembo system on the R35s is apparently underwhelming in stock form and that car is only 200-300lbs heavier than the Z Performance.

 

[MHockey17]

I get Nissan is in bed with Bridgestone, but even Nissan knew better than to put anything Bridgestone on the GT-R - it got custom Dunlops from the start. If you look closely, the Z Proto never had Bridgestones on it. It had Dunlops.

Those looked like the same Dunlops they used on the ‘18+ 370Z NISMOs, which I think were derived from the GTR tires.

They definitely felt like a significant improvement to me over the Bridgestone as far as handling & road holding ability goes. Makes it kind of puzzling why Nissan wouldn’t use them on the Perf Zs if they have them, though they wear very quick and are pricey to replace so that could be a reason why.

 

[Denver the Last Dinosaur]

What's next? - Z vs SS/1LE?, Z vs Hellcat?, Z vs GRMN Supra?, Z vs M2/3/4?, Z vs <Insert AMG here>?, Z vs Cayman GT4?

Nissan Z vs Bugatti Veyron.

 

[takemorepills]

I think braking would also qualify as a “tire-based” metric; With grippier tires and a more performance-oriented pad compound Id expect much better brake distance.

Don’t think the calipers themselves are necessarily to blame. Although the increased weight over the previous 370Z Sport is surely a factor here, and makes me wonder at what weight is the Akebono system overwhelmed . The comparably more massive Brembo system on the R35s is apparently underwhelming in stock form and that car is only 200-300lbs heavier than the Z Performance.

Braking system performance is defined by several characteristics, such as
Brake fluid
Master cylinder piston size
Stroke
Brake lines
Caliper piston volume (combined on multi pot)
Caliper piston surface area
Caliper rigidity
Caliper heat management
Brake pads
Rotor
ABS performance

Very difficult to say where the Akebononos let down. They look great, have lots of pistons, are super lightweight, but have a very bad reputation.

On the Infiniti cars that had them optional (Infiniti=heavy BTW) they didn't perform any better in initial braking against the steel 2 pot calipers. After repeated stops, they showed superiority over the steel calipers for resistance against heat soak. Doesn't mean they're good, just better than those particular steel calipers.

I have OEM pads in my Akebononos, so I'm not an Akebonono expert. I just know that they are "fine" in my 3900# Q60, but with 255/285 tires, I don't think the abs is needed in the dry, as the brakes can't lock up my tires, on my car. I would suppose I'd be happy with them in a lighter car with more aggressive pads and good tires.

 

[Houston.RZ34]

The comparably more massive Brembo system on the R35s is apparently underwhelming in stock form

Who in the hell said that?! - The R35 brakes are the best damned brakes I've ever slammed personally, I've never leaned forward before them.

Braking system performance is defined by several characteristics, such as
Brake fluid
Master cylinder piston size
Stroke
Brake lines
Caliper piston volume (combined on multi pot)
Caliper piston surface area
Caliper rigidity
Caliper heat management
Brake pads
Rotor
ABS performance

Very difficult to say where the Akebononos let down. They look great, have lots of pistons, are super lightweight, but have a very bad reputation.

On the Infiniti cars that had them optional (Infiniti=heavy BTW) they didn't perform any better in initial braking against the steel 2 pot calipers. After repeated stops, they showed superiority over the steel calipers for resistance against heat soak. Doesn't mean they're good, just better than those particular steel calipers.

I have OEM pads in my Akebononos, so I'm not an Akebonono expert. I just know that they are "fine" in my 3900# Q60, but with 255/285 tires, I don't think the abs is needed in the dry, as the brakes can't lock up my tires, on my car. I would suppose I'd be happy with them in a lighter car with more aggressive pads and good tires.

My 370 taught me that Akebonos love to eat blank rotors, ate the first set of rotors on the Q50 as well. I put some slotted ones on and haven't had an issue in years - the Akebono Calipers are great.......it's everything else that needs a boost.

 

[TitanZ]

Comparing the Z against the Mach 1 is just clickbait, they could've easily got a GT Premium w/GT Performance Package for $53,855 and compared that. Although the GT comes with the infamous MT-82 transmission (see class action lawsuit) so maybe the testers don't want to deal with that transmission.

The Mach 1 is just another Mustang and if you want 1 there are 228 brand new 2021 & 2022 models sitting on dealer lots/available right now.

Not street racing or tracking so don't care for these comparisons, I want the Z because it's a Z and not those other cars.

 

[MHockey17]

Who in the hell said that?! - The R35 brakes are the best damned brakes I've ever slammed personally, I've never leaned forward before them.

Im thinking of the early model CBA brakes with the smaller front rotors; from what I read it seemed like they could suffer fade somewhat easily during high performance driving. I had thought that was one of the reasons Nissan switched to bigger rotors for ‘12+ models. Though I’ve never driven one personally so I could just be mistaken .

Seems like a popular mod in the GTR community for those with CBA brakes is to switch to bigger front rotors, and I’m wondering if maybe that’s something the new Z needs as well to deal with the heat from extra weight n power.