Anotha One from C&D: Comparison Test: 2022 BMW M240i vs. 2021 Ford Mustang Mach 1 vs. 2023 Nissan Z vs. 2022 Toyota GR Supra 3.0

[BobDigi5060]

I get, it's disappointing, but we don't drive Nissans because they are the absolute best. We like and choose to drive them because they meet our expectations and quite often budget. I have a paid off 70k mile G37 that is simply a depreciating assett. Blue Book says over $10k, if I smarten up one day I will sell it, but I don't plan to. MQB A3, WRX, you name it would be quicker, but like I said we drive Nissans because they check most if not all boxes.

Car @ Driver is not holding back and I look forward to what tuners and drivers will do with their Zs. Don't get it twisted I may own one or a 2018+ Q50 one day. Just not going to give up my VQ for a VR my G37 checks all the boxes.

 

[300ZTT]

So let me get this right …one of the major “lows” for the Z is tires, that can be replaced easily and pretty cheaply. And it carry’s over from the 370z
The others have things like poor suspension, bad seats, claustrophobic cabin NO manual….things that cost a great deal to fix if they can be fixed at all

From what I gather from the article, the Z performed the worst in the handling department. So it looks like better tires and coilovers will be needed right off the bat.

 

[Houston.RZ34]

And why do they keep using the Mach 1?! - The Mach 1 isn't a "normal" trim.

Mustang GT Premium is what they should be using, not the damned GT350 replacement.

I get, it's disappointing, but we don't drive Nissans because they are the absolute best. We like and choose to drive them because they meet our expectations and quite often budget. I have a paid off 70k mile G37 that is simply a depreciating assett. Blue Book says over $10k, if I smarten up one day I will sell it, but I don't plan to. MQB A3, WRX, you name it would be quicker, but like I said we drive Nissans because they check most if not all boxes.

Car @ Driver is not holding back and I look forward to what tuners and drivers will do with their Zs. Don't get it twisted I may own one or a 2018+ Q50 one day. Just not going to give up my VQ for a VR my G37 checks all the boxes.

You hit the nail on the head.....problem is, it's not within budget this time.

Camaro SS/1LE is 6k cheaper than a Z Performance, That's a problem.

 

[LZ23]

From what I gather from the article, the Z performed the worst in the handling department. So it looks like better tires and coilovers will be needed right off the bat.

Typical Car & Driver review.They compare the Z to cars that are all 10k more in Canada and then place it 4th.This magazine lost all credibility years ago.Why do a review with a pre production model that has had the shit driven out of it by many reviewers and then claim the tires let it down.The mustang is a nice car but saying it looks better than the Z is just rediculous and it gets the worst fuel economy by a long shot compared to the others.

 

[Houston.RZ34]

So let me get this right …one of the major “lows” for the Z is tires, that can be replaced easily and pretty cheaply. And it carry’s over from the 370z
The others have things like poor suspension, bad seats, claustrophobic cabin NO manual….things that cost a great deal to fix if they can be fixed at all

I like where you're heading with this.....

"Sure our dog in the fight has shortcomings......but they can be fixed via aftermarket!!"

 

[TiresAlwaysFlat]

C/D review: "The driving position earned praise, but the 370Z-derived seats themselves pleased no one, especially since the fore-and-aft controls again are on the transmission-tunnel side."

Hopefully the Sport version manual seat controls will all be on the outward side of the seats?

It's good to hear C/D liked the driving position, because I don't care how well a vehicle performs, if I feel like I'm in some sort of tank with crummy viewing/positioning.

I wonder though about the seat comfort, because I've read some complaints of the bottom seat cushion lack of width fore to aft.

The bottom cushion of the seats in the new Z are identical to the 370Z. One of the positive pass experience with my 370Z was how comfortable the seats were on long drives. I had the leather seats and I do remember there were numerous complaints about the cloth seats not having enough cushion and made it somewhat uncomfortable.

 

[BobDigi5060]

The Supra is such an ugly car. Not the side, or rear, but my gosh. Similar and as bad as Hawkeyes. To each their own. Looks like tuning is still a issue for some 2021s and up too. Even if it's not I doubt we'll have these issues for the Z.

Z has a lot going for her. I believe it will be popular and cross shopped with Camaro, Challenger, WRX, and STi.

 

[Loco38SUP]

And why do they keep using the Mach 1?! - The Mach 1 isn't a "normal" trim.

Mustang GT Premium is what they should be using, not the damned GT350 replacement.



You hit the nail on the head.....problem is, it's not within budget this time.

Camaro SS/1LE is 6k cheaper than a Z Performance, That's a problem.

The Camaro SS/ 1LE is no slouch. I had one step up to me at a stop light the other day. I was surprised how well it kept up considering its heavier than the Supra.

-RJM

 

[bboypuertoroc]

So let me get this right …one of the major “lows” for the Z is tires, that can be replaced easily and pretty cheaply.

Tires and suspension ain't cheap unless you're cheaping out. A good tire is gonna run MINIMUM $300 per tire and a decent set of coilovers is gonna run $2k+.

 

[trackratZ]

Camaro SS/1LE is 6k cheaper than a Z Performance, That's a problem.

True but the 1LE and Z are targeting different customers IMO. Plus the Camaro, it's either you like or hate the ergonomics and outward visibility, pretty claustrophobic in there.

 

[West Aussie]

Tires and suspension ain't cheap unless you're cheaping out. A good tire is gonna run MINIMUM $300 per tire and a decent set of coilovers is gonna run $2k+.

True, but still cheaper than the other issues they bought up with the other cars…and at least it can be fixed.
How do you fix a car with a claustrophobic feel?
How do you fix no manual, if it’s a drivers car that kinda demands manual?
And there is no way to fix the ugly that is a Supra

 

[bboypuertoroc]

True but the 1LE and Z are targeting different customers IMO. Plus the Camaro, it's either you like or hate the ergonomics and outward visibility, pretty claustrophobic in there.

I've almost always hated the Camaro. When they did the retro thing I despised it. I think the updates they've done since then really helped it out and now I like it. The performance is quite ridiculous for a muscle car.

 

[bboypuertoroc]

True, but still cheaper than the other issues they bought up with the other cars…and at least it can be fixed.
How do you fix a car with a claustrophobic feel?
How do you fix no manual, if it’s a drivers car that kinda demands manual?
And there is no way to fix the ugly that is a Supra

A sawz-all and diet lol

 

[Drseckzytime]

The Camaro SS/ 1LE is no slouch. I had one step up to me at a stop light the other. I was surprised how well it kept up considering its heavier than the Supra.

-RJM

They aren't made for drag racing. You're better off getting a reg SS for that.

But to the others. The 1LE just like the Mach 1 and GTPP are set up for the track. They are handling machines that just so happen to be quick in a straight line. That Mach 1 is slowed by it's handling goodies. People can't comprehend that for some reason. Lol.

I haven't priced a GTPP lately, but I obviously can speak on the SS 1LE and it is cheaper, will likely bury the Z at the track and B-Road, and it might have more comfy seats, better steering, and transmission.

You are looking at tires, suspension (springs, dampeners, sways, etc), and brakes for the Z. Which you shouldn't have to at it's price. That will easily push it to the mid and upper $50ks.

Not surprised seeing the M240i beating it, yet it's the most livable car of the bunch, along with the mustang next.

Maybe Car and Driver have an axe to grind with Nissan. Maybe they too are disappointed with the Z's pricing/performance, and just making sure it's known. Beautiful car, but I still feel Nissan screwed up, IMHO.

 

[fliplover]

It is what it is.

My takeaway:

Needs 93? DaFuq? Where have I been to not notice that yet..... We don't have 93 in my area! That's a serious issue for me....

The criticism about acceleration....stop freaking running the 6MT against BMW automatics. The 9AT is only a fraction behind.

Speaking of the 6MT..... Good showing against the mustang. The new Z makes very competitive horsepower and can even out muscle the mustang.

All of the other negatives from CD are not on my radar....

91 octane plus a bottle of octane booster is probably cheaper then 93 anyway.