Any updates on the VR30 head issue?

[Crownleyian]

Appreciate you sharing. Lots to digest here.

If you don't mind me asking, are there any more details that you are aware of? Was he/she tuned?

Unfortunately this is on Fabebook group called The New Nissan Z he does have mods just bolt ons but all genuine Nismo ones, that’s as much as I know I’d love this story to be here at the forum so we could get more insight.

 

[trackratZ]

Didn’t want to be that guy but…

“Motor is toast at 31k miles.

Bottom end failure occurred while cruising back from a birthday dinner a couple nights ago. With this, along with the reoccurring mystery coolant loss issue that even a nissan engineer couldn't figure out, the dealer is having the entire engine with turbos replaced under warranty. and also allowing me to add bolt-ons free of charge.”

Hate to be a skeptic but what mods, even Nismo parts, were added and were they added correctly? And why was the Nissan engineer couldn't figure out the issue, any codes, and they're willing to replace all that under warranty? Are we sure this is a Nissan dealer or an aftermarket shop? Got to have more details.

 

[Crownleyian]

Appreciate you sharing. Lots to digest here.

If you don't mind me asking, are there any more details that you are aware of? Was he/she tuned?

Unfortunately this is on Fabebook group called The New Nissan Z he had boltons all Nismo original and no tune.

 

[NocturnalEmber]

Unfortunately this is on Fabebook group called The New Nissan Z he had boltons all Nismo original and no tune.

Thanks for posting. Even if second hand its good to have some indication, but the original authors post seems to be lacking a lot of context.

Just speculating, but based on the rims I'd say there are other mods as well. A 'bottom end' failure isn't really the problem we are chasing here but that leads me to believe the bottom end failure was the cause of aftermarket mods potentially? I don't think there have been any documented cases of those happening due to a factory defects, but I wouldn't say its impossible by any means.

I mean the engine is an open deck design, but that's not really a design flaw, though it is a design that has flaws.

Anyway, that aside, the original author did mention the disappearing coolant issues, so block issue aside, it seems like that was something he was running into as well.

Edit: Also worth mentioning that I wouldn't be surprised if being tuned contributes to the issue (even if the above linked case wasn't tuned.) If the head bolt is already a stress riser, it wouldn't be unheard of to think that raising cylinder pressure would further stress this weakpoint.

Just speculating, though.

 

[Crownleyian]

Thanks for posting. Even if second hand its good to have some indication, but the original authors post seems to be lacking a lot of context.

Just speculating, but based on the rims I'd say there are other mods as well. A 'bottom end' failure isn't really the problem we are chasing here but that leads me to believe the bottom end failure was the cause of aftermarket mods potentially? I don't think there have been any documented cases of those happening due to a factory defects, but I wouldn't say its impossible by any means.

I mean the engine is an open deck design, but that's not really a design flaw, though it is a design that has flaws.

Anyway, that aside, the original author did mention the disappearing coolant issues, so block issue aside, it seems like that was something he was running into as well.

Edit: Also worth mentioning that I wouldn't be surprised if being tuned contributes to the issue (even if the above linked case wasn't tuned.) If the head bolt is already a stress riser, it wouldn't be unheard of to think that raising cylinder pressure would further stress this weakpoint.

Just speculating, though.

What I do know is he has mentioned his mods are Nismo bolt ons, he has mentioned that he has no tunes done and I do know he does track days.

 

[Xylander]

Honestly I think I know the answer in my gut but I'm trying to refrain from entertaining it fully, or maybe I'm just being a raincloud, but call me crazy for being annoyed when this car is north of a $50,000 price point.

The problem with this whole situation is if people are in fact having them in their Z we now know its not an issue that was corrected from the Q50/Q60, regardless of any part number changes.

Nissan being Nissan, I don't imagine that there will be any real solution for owners. They're hemorrhaging cash and even if they weren't I don't anticipate us getting much if any recourse whatsoever, just look at the Infiniti crowd.

About the most I would expect is that the affected cars will be covered under warranty once this starts becoming enough of a known issue with the Z (more than it already is with the VR30 in general.) e.g. engine replacements.

I don't see Nissan going through the time or trouble to redesign the head. That's a significant cost for an engine that is 10+ years old R&D wise at this point, and with their financial situation, well, yeah.

Unfortunately for anyone effected the only real solution to this issue is for Nissan to redesign the head.

Per AMS findings (and I trust AMS on this one, look at the video if you haven't already), the issue is caused by stress cracks/fractures on one of the head bolt bosses near the exhaust bank. They've seen it on both cylinder heads. With those coolant passages there it has enough material absent in the head to create a stress riser and that's what causes the subsequent cracking and oil/coolant mixing.

What's likely going to happen is Nissan will treat it like any other warranty claim unless there's pertinent reason to deny and just install a fresh engine. The problem with that, however, is that they are going to just put another defective designed engine into the car and kick the can down the road so to speak so if/when the issue happens again the car will be out of warranty and thus not their problem anymore.

I like my Z, I really do, but honestly if I'd have known this beforehand I would have just kept my Supra.

One point of contention here. If a manufacturer does an engine replacement, it starts another powertrain warranty period for that item. So, if you blew your engine at 30k miles, the replacement should have another 50k mile powertrain warranty.

Not really an issue for me, as my selling dealership put a lifetime powertrain warranty on the car when I bought it.

 

[NocturnalEmber]

One point of contention here. If a manufacturer does an engine replacement, it starts another powertrain warranty period for that item. So, if you blew your engine at 30k miles, the replacement should have another 50k mile powertrain warranty.

Not really an issue for me, as my selling dealership put a lifetime powertrain warranty on the car when I bought it.

I welcome constructive opinions either way.

I wasn't aware that it starts another warranty period for that item, though. That is really surprising honestly. That is also part of the problem though. Granted I'm speaking entirely hypothetically on this, but if it does become an issue like I've said, If all Nissan is going to do is replace the engine or head with the same defective design all it's going to do is kick the can down the road so to speak.

Common sense would dictate the optimal solution would be to redesign the heads, but I wouldn't imagine Nissan would want to spend the money to do that, but again, I'm speculating, so who knows. A lot of 'what-if's and other variables at play.

edit: I think the dealer I bought mine from gave a lifetime power train warranty for mine as well but I think the terms are pretty ridiculous, like I have to have all of my service performed at their service department etc etc. I'd probably spend more time fighting with them over it than actually getting it covered, I think its a marketing tactic more than anything (depending on terms obviously.)

 

[Crownleyian]

I think to be fair a from what I’ve seen there is 2 Zs that have had engine replaced if memory doesn’t fail me, that’s very small numbers.
It’s worrying yes but we don’t even know the cause of this issue could be totally unrelated to cracked head.
Yes I’m concerned but you know what fuck it I love this car and we have 10 years warranty here.

 

[NocturnalEmber]

I think to be fair a from what I’ve seen there is 2 Zs that have had engine replaced if memory doesn’t fail me, that’s very small numbers.
It’s worrying yes but we don’t even know the cause of this issue could be totally unrelated to cracked head.
Yes I’m concerned but you know what fuck it I love this car and we have 10 years warranty here.

Australia gives a decade for warranty? That's impressive.

Maybe I'm being paranoid, but my justification is I spent almost $60,000 on this car, and the notion of having an intrusive "are these heads going to crack" thought in the back of my mind just makes owning one seem not as fun as it should be.

I love my Z, but dammit why does this have to be a potential problem.

 

[Xylander]

Cars are built and designed by men. They will never be perfect. For those that have followed me on the C8 and Hellcat forums, they might be familiar with me having a lemon law return on the C8 for 4, count 'em, 4 blown transmissions in 8k miles, and how my Redeye went down with multiple driveshaft failures. So I've had fair share of bad luck (stock cars, no mods).

I don't think a couple random head gasket or head problems is indicative of a problem.

 

[NocturnalEmber]

Cars are built and designed by men. They will never be perfect. For those that have followed me on the C8 and Hellcat forums, they might be familiar with me having a lemon law return on the C8 for 4, count 'em, 4 blown transmissions in 8k milrs, and how my Redeye went down with multiple driveshaft failures. So I've had fair share of bad luck (stock cars, no mods).

I don't think a couple random head gasket or head problems is indicative of a problem.

That may be a difference of opinion. Not saying you are wrong, but the possibility of my head cracking to me is very much indicative of a problem.

Four transmissions, that is insane.

 

[Crownleyian]

Australia gives a decade for warranty? That's impressive.

Maybe I'm being paranoid, but my justification is I spent almost $60,000 on this car, and the notion of having an intrusive "are these heads going to crack" thought in the back of my mind just makes owning one seem not as fun as it should be.

I love my Z, but dammit why does this have to be a potential problem.

look I get you and I’m the first to be concerned about this too but we are talking about 3 Nissan Zs with reported engine replacement, that’s very minimal in the grand scheme of things. Besides their all related to different issues and no tech has reported cracked head yet.
The tech working on the Nismo is actually in that FB group and hopefully he will give us some insight on what actually when wrong.

I should be pissed/concerned because I just got a HKS Super Turbo for my Nismo that’s 5.9k AUD, but you know what f#ck it… one day at a time!

 

[Apex_Z]

The fact that we’re on here trying to find new evidence of this failure should tell us everything we need to know.

Go on a WRX forum and lookup code P0304, no mysteries there, lol.

Its easy to get sucked in to worrying. My miata was a 2016, supposedly the transmission was going to fail "any moment" as there was a known issue.

It had a tune, suspension and sticky tires, I drove the f**k out of it for years, track days and all. Zero issues.

 

[NocturnalEmber]

Its easy to get sucked in to worrying. My miata was a 2016, supposedly the transmission was going to fail "any moment" as there was a known issue.

It had a tune, suspension and sticky tires, I drove the f**k out of it for years, track days and all. Zero issues.

Surprised i haven't seen you driving around orlando, but I'm more on the west side.

ND1's I did hear had transmission issues, though.

 

[Apex_Z]

That may be a difference of opinion. Not saying you are wrong, but the possibility of my head cracking to me is very much indicative of a problem.

Four transmissions, that is insane.

Fwiw, the possibilities for failures on your car go far beyond the head cracking. You have to decide if you are going to spend your time worrying about an issue that is unlikely to happen, or enjoy your car and deal with an issue if and when it occurs.