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Xylander

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Sorry for the delay, got called out of town on business. This is a couple images of the subs. You can't see the rest of the install, as I had them install the Focal Utopia M component speakers behind the factory mounting locations. I wanted a very clean and unobtrusive an install as possible... but there's no hiding these things. The subs are the 10" Focal flax W sandwich units. Unlike the gentleman above with the very nice below the mat speaker install, I don't have any room under there as that's where we mounted the amplifier and digital modulator. Beryllium tweeters are in the dash.

The box design is such that you can remove that center panel with some effort by hand, and remove the speakers easily if I ever wanted to part it out for whatever reason. Those boxes were hand made locally for this vehicle. Practically the entire trunk and frame around the glass is coated in 11sf 4mm SoundShield dampening. Door panels were removed and they added a healthy portion there, under the carpets, and under the headliner. If someone is standing just outside the car and talking in a normal speaking voice, you almost can't hear them. At max output and heavy bass to where the subs just start to distort, there are no rattles anywhere in this car. But, that type of music isn't what this thing is for. It's the ultra clarity. If you put on something like acoustic Eric Clapton, you can close your eyes and it sounds like he's sitting on your shoulders playing. It's simply an amazing thing.

Ludicrously expensive, but man, to me it's worth every penny. It'll be the only car I ever put this kind of a system in again, probably, but I'm so glad I did it this time. Words can't really express how good this Focal system sounds.

This entire interior was gutted to do the install, as they needed to add a lot of sound deadening. I took it to the dealership for the first oil change and service inspection today. The service advisor got in the car, closed the door... then hopped right back out. He said, "one sec!" And ran over to their prototype edition and opened and slammed the door shut, then came back to mine.

"Why does your door shut like an army tank? I mean, it just sounds SOLID, like THUD." I then opened the hatch and told him to turn the stereo on as he drives it around back. He came back a few minutes later and took the general manager back to see it, and they were both gobsmacked. The GM said it sounds like nothing he's ever seen before, and he said to him, the best part was you get in, close the door and just sit there... in perfect silence. "But then, you turn the stereo on and you can FEEL every kick of a drum like a one-two jab in your shoulders. It's certifiably cool and I don't want to know how much this cost you."

IMG_3113.webp


IMG_3114.webp


Details:
  • 2x Focal EVO 10" 300w subs
  • Matched rear quarter/front Focal Utopia M speakers (4" rear quarter, 6.5" fronts - 2 of ea)
  • 5-channel DSP Matrix Amp with Accubass
  • Utopia M 2-way passive component kit (w/ the upgraded beryllium tweeters)

Sadly, I don't have any in-progress photos of the build, so I can't really show you the speakers themselves. But, you can see the Utopias through the Bose grilles in the doors when they're open. It took me about 2 weeks of off and on tweaking the modulator's tune settings to get it all happy and sounding great.
 
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Mr. Mac

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@Xylander - Nice. Agreed on Focal. Pricey, but well worth it for those of us who sweat highly detailed sound quality. I assume the subs' enclosures are formed fiberglass, yes? Do you happen to know what their net internal volume is? Curious to learn how they were formed and how they are secure and coupled to body. Another thing I'm curious about with your setup is the front stage. You're running a 2-way component set (2X mids in doors, 2X tweets in dash), 2X mids in rear quarter panels for fill, and 2X subs all off a single 5-channel amplifier. Correct? You also said you're using passive crossovers on front stage, so presumably the entire front stage (four speakers total) is being powered by two channels of amplifier. If that's the case, how are you performing time alignment of front stage's four speakers with just two channels of processing and amplification?
 

Xylander

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@Xylander - Nice. Agreed on Focal. Pricey, but well worth it for those of us who sweat highly detailed sound quality. I assume the subs' enclosures are formed fiberglass, yes? Do you happen to know what their net internal volume is? Curious to learn how they were formed and how they are secure and coupled to body. Another thing I'm curious about with your setup is the front stage. You're running a 2-way component set (2X mids in doors, 2X tweets in dash), 2X mids in rear quarter panels for fill, and 2X subs all off a single 5-channel amplifier. Correct? You also said you're using passive crossovers on front stage, so presumably the entire front stage (four speakers total) is being powered by two channels of amplifier. If that's the case, how are you performing time alignment of front stage's four speakers with just two channels of processing and amplification?
Sadly, these are all good questions for the shop that did the work. I can't answer most of them. What I can say is that the bass pods are indeed fiberglass, but I'm unsure of the volume. If you look at the picture, that small middle section between the two locks in the two pods on either side. You can use a pry tool to lift it up. Once removed, the pods are relatively free standing and can be lifted right out, assuming you disconnect them from the amplifier.

The things you were asking were all explained to me when they were designing the system and it has something to do with how they tied in to the factory head unit/system. This way, I can tune it with the DM Smart DSP app and also use the infotainment system's native sound settings to fine adjust the forward/rear balance, etc. if I wanted to.

In that app, the system is divided into 3 major channel groups. 1-2 is the front tweeters and door mounted Utopias. The 3-4 channel is the rear fill speakers and 5 is the subs. Thus, I can tune the tweeters independently of the door speakers, even though they're technically on the same channel.

What I know of what's installed in the trunk under the mat, there's 2 components there. The amplifier and a digital modulator/controller of some kind. I simply don't know exactly, as to answer your question I'd have to pop the speakers free to get under there and see. I haven't done this. The system has a USB dongle to plug a laptop into to tune it.

What I can say, is that the instructions I gave them was, "I want this system to sound great. I know we can't hide the subs, but I want everything else in the car to appear stock. No visible custom speakers. If I ever sell the car, I want to be able to come back and have the system removed so I can reuse the system in another vehicle or part it out." What they came up with was this design that, other than the sound deadening, didn't permanently alter the car in any visual way aside from the trunk situation.
 
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Mr. Mac

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In that app, the system is divided into 3 major channel groups. 1-2 is the front tweeters and door mounted Utopias. The 3-4 channel is the rear fill speakers and 5 is the subs. Thus, I can tune the tweeters independently of the door speakers, even though they're technically on the same channel.
This is the part I'm not understanding. If channels 1 & 2 are powering both the front tweeters (dash) AND the front midbass/midrange speakers (doors), then it's not possible to tune the dash speakers and door speakers independently (assuming of course that the system is being processed in a true stereo configuration). The only way you'd be able to "tune the tweeters independently of the door speakers" with just two channels of amplification is for both tweeters to be on one channel, and both midbass/midranges on the other channel, but that would result in a mono configuration, not stereo.

Please don't take this as me knocking your system, because I'm not (if you're happy, I'm happy for you), just very curious how what's being described could ever be possibly achieved given the strict limitations of just two channels of processing and power driving four individual speakers in four very different locations/distances from driver's head. Another reason for this curiosity is that without individual processing and power for each individual speaker you aren't achieving anywhere close to what those very nice Focal speakers you're using are capable of.
 

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This is the part I'm not understanding. If channels 1 & 2 are powering both the front tweeters (dash) AND the front midbass/midrange speakers (doors), then it's not possible to tune the dash speakers and door speakers independently (assuming of course that the system is being processed in a true stereo configuration). The only way you'd be able to "tune the tweeters independently of the door speakers" with just two channels of amplification is for both tweeters to be on one channel, and both midbass/midranges on the other channel, but that would result in a mono configuration, not stereo.

Please don't take this as me knocking your system, because I'm not (if you're happy, I'm happy for you), just very curious how what's being described could ever be possibly achieved given the strict limitations of just two channels of processing and power driving four individual speakers in four very different locations/distances from driver's head. Another reason for this curiosity is that without individual processing and power for each individual speaker you aren't achieving anywhere close to what those very nice Focal speakers you're using are capable of.
Maybe there's a tunable band pass filter in the tweeter feeds?
 
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Mr. Mac

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Maybe there's a tunable band pass filter in the tweeter feeds?
Presumably you're referring to passive crossover, which is the only way to split and independently filter two different frequency ranges from a single amplifier channel to feed two or more speakers. You'd also never want to band-pass a tweeter, only high-pass. Anyway, even if the amplified audio signal is split and filtered with a passive crossover, that does not allow the two speakers to be independently controlled. You could sort of make level adjustments with an advanced passive crossover (resistors), but once they're set, they're set. No control afterwards. You wouldn't be able to do any sort of independent time alignment though between the two different speakers being powered by a single amplifier channel (which is critical) since the processing is only per amplifier channel, not multiple speakers on a single channel split and filtered by passive crossover.
 

Xylander

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This is the part I'm not understanding. If channels 1 & 2 are powering both the front tweeters (dash) AND the front midbass/midrange speakers (doors), then it's not possible to tune the dash speakers and door speakers independently (assuming of course that the system is being processed in a true stereo configuration). The only way you'd be able to "tune the tweeters independently of the door speakers" with just two channels of amplification is for both tweeters to be on one channel, and both midbass/midranges on the other channel, but that would result in a mono configuration, not stereo.

Please don't take this as me knocking your system, because I'm not (if you're happy, I'm happy for you), just very curious how what's being described could ever be possibly achieved given the strict limitations of just two channels of processing and power driving four individual speakers in four very different locations/distances from driver's head. Another reason for this curiosity is that without individual processing and power for each individual speaker you aren't achieving anywhere close to what those very nice Focal speakers you're using are capable of.
What you're saying definitely has merit. I've been traveling for business this week and just got back a few hours ago, hence my delayed reply. I'm going to have another go at tuning it, but I do agree that it likely needs a second amplifier.

I can isolate the speakers to tune them, but the problem I'm having right now is mainly with the door speakers sounding like they're under water. My levels are all off and, if they get too much gain, they start distorting. If I can't get it situated, I'll take it back to the shop to have them revisit it.

I kindly request, given the list I posted above, what do you think should be added and/or questions I should ask the shop? I'm an engine/powertrain builder, so I know my car stuff but car audio is not something I claim to know a whole lot about. I definitely see the merit in adding a 2nd amplifier though, as that does seem to be limiting the system's output. The back half of the car sounds great, the door speakers, not so much. But, some of that is surely the tune I have in the car that just needs more work.

I'm going to spend a few hours with it tomorrow and see if I can remedy the issue. I'm a quantum hardware engineer @ Google, so I know how to mess with the actual computer tune :)
 
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Mr. Mac

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I kindly request, given the list I posted above, what do you think should be added and/or questions I should ask the shop?
No problem at all. I'd be happy to offer some suggestions, but in order to accurately do that I'd need a few things confirmed first.

Is the this the one and only amplifier you're currently using? >>> https://audiocontrol.com/products/d...l-dsp-matrix-amplifier?variant=42131468877884 If not, which one(s)?

Exactly which model Focal Flax EVO 10" subwoofers are you currently using? These? >>> https://www.focal-america.com/product/sub-p-25-fe/ Or these? https://www.focal-america.com/product/sub-p-25-fse/

Exactly which Focal 2-way component speaker kit are you currently using for front stage? Your earlier post reads "Focal Utopia M 2-way passive component kit", but then goes on to also say "2x Focal dash tweeters (I forget which ones, sorry), 2x Focal replacement speakers in the doors (again, don't have the exact model #)" which is confusing. If you could go here and post back exactly what's being used that would be very helpful.
 

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Just curious ballpark cost?
 

Xylander

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Just curious ballpark cost?
The component cost for my build was $6,800. Install and additional sound deadening were about $3,000. Most installs of a total system like this would run $1,400 or so, but I had them rattle proof the A/C ducts, remove headliner and install sound insulation, then reinstall the headliner. Remove door panels and install sound mat/foam, remove trim around rear hatch, sound mat the entire hatch and interior rear trunk, plastic rear lower fascia. Reinstall all trim to OEM stock like new configuration.

Thus, I ended up with a lot of sound deadening and a total stereo replacement that's completely invisible, save for the 2 large 10" bass pods in the trunk. There's no hiding those. Everything else is installed behind the OEM trim. Even put the Bose grilles back in.
 

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Mr. Mac

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Just curious ballpark cost?
Hi - Not sure whose system you were asking about, but if it's mine, here's the breakdown.

1) OWC OEM Audio Interface Harness: $355
1) JL Audio DRC-205 Digital Remote Control: $140
1) JL Audio VX800/8i DSP/Power Amplifier: $1,850
1) JL Audio VX1000/1i DSP/Power Amplifier: $1,450
1) Focal FRAK 1.25” Component Tweeters (pair): $1,000
1) Focal ES 165 KX2E EVO 6.50” Component Woofers (pair): $420
2) Audiofrog GB25 2.50” Component Midranges (pair): $1,140
2) JL Audio 10TW3-D8 10.00” Subwoofers: $1,040
1) Custom Air Suspension Subwoofer Enclosure/Equipment Rack: $500
2) Custom CNC Aluminum 1.25” Tweeter Pods: $125
6) Custom CNC ABS 4X 2.50” & 2X 6.50” Speaker Adapters: $180

SoundShield Massive 4.5 mm/48 sq ft Acoustic Deadening Sheets: $500
SoundShield Slim 1.5 mm/33 sq ft Acoustic Deadening Sheets: $180
SoundShield Contour 25 mm/27 ln ft Acoustic Sealing Strips: $50
SoundShield WrapIt 3 mm/30 ln ft Acoustic Isolating Tape: $30
VibroFiltr ShimWave 15mm/40 sq ft Acoustic Gasketing Sheets: $130

Miscellaneous (master circuit protection, fuse/distribution block, fuses, power/ground cables, audio cables, speaker cables, terminals/lugs, jacketing, switches, etc.): $700

Total Equipment & Materials: $9,790 (+ tax)

I handled the entire installation and tuning myself, which I estimate to be about 30 hours. So if you were to have a competent high-end professional installer at shop handle that I’m guessing that’s probably around $3,000 on top of the equipment/material cost (assuming ~$100/hour shop rate)

So grand total ~$13K (+ tax)
 

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Mr. Mac, is this the actual dimensions of your build? I have a buddy with all the woodworking equipment and he can replicate your enclosure for me.

I currently have one JL Audio 10TW-1-2 in my Titan and it's impressive, I can almost hear how good your enclosure sounds 🤣

Regarding the signal tap at the OEM Bose amplifier, do you think this connector that I make for Nissan Titan with Fender is similar looking to the connector on the Bose amplifier?:
PXL_20240824_220633519~2.webp

It's the top connector I'm hoping is the same, the bottom two aren't relevant for the Z. The upper one is fairly typical on newer Nissans, it's to grab the line level and remote turn on from OEM infotainment (at the amplifier connector, not behind the head unit), if it works with the Z I might be able to offer this for the Z guys..... After confirming it on an actual Z
 

Xylander

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No problem at all. I'd be happy to offer some suggestions, but in order to accurately do that I'd need a few things confirmed first.

Is the this the one and only amplifier you're currently using? >>> https://audiocontrol.com/products/d...l-dsp-matrix-amplifier?variant=42131468877884 If not, which one(s)?

Exactly which model Focal Flax EVO 10" subwoofers are you currently using? These? >>> https://www.focal-america.com/product/sub-p-25-fe/ Or these? https://www.focal-america.com/product/sub-p-25-fse/

Exactly which Focal 2-way component speaker kit are you currently using for front stage? Your earlier post reads "Focal Utopia M 2-way passive component kit", but then goes on to also say "2x Focal dash tweeters (I forget which ones, sorry), 2x Focal replacement speakers in the doors (again, don't have the exact model #)" which is confusing. If you could go here and post back exactly what's being used that would be very helpful.
This is the Utopia kit I have: https://www.focal-america.com/product/165-w-xp/
The amplifier you listed above is the one under the trunk.Subs are the P-25 FE

I've since gotten it tuned nicely and sounding fine. The reason for my issues earlier had to do with the installer putting in a broken clip in the door that was causing a bad rattle at certain frequencies. I pulled the door panel, fixed the clip, and retuned the system, as I had it tuned away from the frequency that was producing the rattle. Everything sounds great now :)
 
 






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