The Japanese Muscle Car Z vs an American, the Camaro SS 1LE

[94boosted]

Not having adaptive dampers, and weighing what it does, it has to have some roll on track if it's to be a tolerable road car. I for one have no wish to drive a car that feels like an Elise over Toronto's often-clapped-out roads.

It is possible to have more roll stiffness without making it to too harsh to drive on the street. Besides, this is meant to be the "Performance" trim, if folks want a softer ride they should be sticking with the "Sport" trim IMHO.

 

[because_murica]

It is possible to have more roll stiffness without making it to too harsh to drive on the street. Besides, this is meant to be the "Performance" trim, if folks want a softer ride they should be sticking with the "Sport" trim IMHO.

I think we're forgetting that they have to leave some headroom for improvement for the Nismo variant. If the non-Nismo cars came out, cutting through corners flat AF, there would likely be very little the Nismo could improve on.

Second, as much as we may try to avoid it, I think the reality is that the Nismo will be the most comparable to the 1LEs and Mach 1s of the world, even though it may ultimately be a little more expensive than its competitors (at least more expensive than a 1LE).

 

[94boosted]

I think we're forgetting that they have to leave some headroom for improvement for the Nismo variant. If the non-Nismo cars came out, cutting through corners flat AF, there would likely be very little the Nismo could improve on.

Second, as much as we may try to avoid it, I think the reality is that the Nismo will be the most comparable to the 1LEs and Mach 1s of the world, even though it may ultimately be a little more expensive than its competitors (at least more expensive than a 1LE).

Again I don't think this thing will be in the same wheel house as the Track Pony's, nor did I expect it to be, heck I'd be surprised if even the Nismo version could (if it ever comes out). I was at least somewhat hopeful that the Z Performance would be on par with a Supra but that's looking unlikely to me.

 

[DevonK]

It is possible to have more roll stiffness without making it to too harsh to drive on the street. Besides, this is meant to be the "Performance" trim, if folks want a softer ride they should be sticking with the "Sport" trim IMHO.

I'd bet Nissan's market research shows there are a lot more buyers like me than track folks like you - i.e. buyers who want a car that will be reasonably comfortable on the street and don't care much about increasing lap times a second or two as a consequence, but still want a LSD and Synchro rev-match car, so the Sport won't cut it. A lot of roll stiffness = harshness by definition (or at least that's how mainstream buyers will feel it). Nissan will know where their bread is going to get buttered.

 

[94boosted]

A lot of roll stiffness = harshness by definition (or at least that's how mainstream buyers will feel it).

Not quite, roll stiffness can be controlled with springs, which absolutely would make the ride harsher but it can also be controlled with ARB's and bushings, which can improve roll stiffness without having too much of an adverse affect on harshness.

Again though, definitely didn't expect the Z to be as flat as something like a 1LE but was hoping it wouldn't roll around like a Coupe DeVille either.

 

[DevonK]

Not quite, roll stiffness can be controlled with springs, which absolutely would make the ride harsher but it can also be controlled with ARB's and bushings, which can improve roll stiffness without having too much of an adverse affect on harshness.

I don't know a great deal about suspension tuning beyond what I do in racing sims, but don't stiff ARBs introduce their own issues for everyday drivers, like increasing the frequency of snap oversteer and other sudden transitions that are hard for the average driver to anticipate and correct? I think Nissan would want the car to be very user-friendly in terms of for example getting the tail end a bit loose on corner exit without being dangerous.

 

[trackratZ]

There are two camps in this thread, and should be separated. The new Z, even in Performance trim is NOT built to be track-ready, it's a GT street car. On the other hand the SS 1LE/ZL1 1LE/PP2/Mach 1 are all track focused builds, the Z can't compete with these, the later Nismo maybe..... The Z is closer to Supra for comparable street performance.

OTOH, once the Nismo comes out, we'll see, and potentially put the related threads in the Track section.

 

[jezzza]

Anyone who's driven a track car on the street knows that they make a terrible daily or even weekend driver. At my age I'll take comfort over rock hard suspension any day.

 

[Drseckzytime]

Anyone who's driven a track car on the street knows that they make a terrible daily or even weekend driver. At my age I'll take comfort over rock hard suspension any day.

Just as a follow up. I just got my 22 2SS 1LE, and yes it's a serious track car. But putting it into touring mode, even with those tires, it is the best riding sports car I have ever owned. It can be done in fact. It's just up to the manufacturer.

I still like to follow up and see how the Z progresses though. I hope it lives up to people's expectations and gives them trouble free joy for years. I'm just happy there's still some manual gas burning sports/GT cars out there yet that are relatively affordable.

 

[rocksandblues]

Just as a follow up. I just got my 22 2SS 1LE, and yes it's a serious track car. But putting it into touring mode, even with those tires, it is the best riding sports car I have ever owned. It can be done in fact. It's just up to the manufacturer.

I still like to follow up and see how the Z progresses though. I hope it lives up to people's expectations and gives them trouble free joy for years. I'm just happy there's still some manual gas burning sports/GT cars out there yet that are relatively affordable.

Congrats! Track friend is still in break-in on his brand new ss 1LE. Amazing tracks cars for what you pay! I am not a huge GM fan but that suspension is basically magic.

I have driven a LT1 1LE on a road course and wow

below is a really good driver hanging with me on the track during a TT event. it is a SS 1LE, I just edged him out by like a .1

camera car is the Camaro, and I am in a black Supra right in front of him.

Edit: i am the second black supra that comes into vid after first lap. The wing black Supra has track records all over the mid atlantic- he has a LOT in his build