BMW recalls Supra (again)... Why didn't you by the Supra instead of the Z?

[Haste]

It doesn't have to be a "us vs them" mentality. With the ever shrinking sport cars segment let's all be thankful that we didn't get a CUV with the Supra and Z nameplate (I'm looking at you Ford and Mitsubishi) and to try and get along.

Agreed. I don't have anything against anyone who bought one, but there are just a lot of things about the car that you can pick at that have gone from disappointing/frustrating to now pretty funny. I wish the execution was much different from Toyota, but am still glad we'll have a new Z and Supra as sports cars at the same time again.

To me, If it was ever a contest Toyota definitely won the last round with the A80/2JZ over the Z32/VG30 in both vehicle and engine categories. It's far from the only indication, but just look at what Mk4's are going for present day. Toyota did however go on hiatus for 20+ years for the US while Nissan produced some pretty nice sports cars for their time while winning best engine year after year. Yes, the 370Z overstayed it's welcome, but at least it was present on new car lots for those that wanted one. Perhaps we wouldn't have been offered practically the same old 370Z for 12 straight model years, while just now getting it's successor, had Toyota developed and released a new Supra much sooner than they chose to do.

I'm glad that some form of competition is back, and that we all get to enjoy the cars that we want to as we draw ever so closer to the end of the ICE vehicle era.

 

[Lin626]

 

[Zboy]

People need to stop calling it 400Z...

 

[vb22]

People need to stop calling it 400Z...

You can thank fake news autoguide for that one...

 

[jdm-rhd]

 

[Go2ZZZ]

Sorry to say, the Supra looks like a very depressed transformer from the rear.

not nice looking at all!

I loved the supras in the late 90s. They were sweeeeeeet!

 

[takemorepills]

Probably been mentioned, but I'll pile on.....

What makes the Supra so great was that it came from a company known for making staid, reliable appliances. Sometimes they had something interesting (the MR2 was really an amazing car from any company, let alone Toyota) but for the vast majority of iron they slung, it was all appliances that never ran afoul of the owner.
Then comes the Supra, world-beating straight line power. Tuners found the I6 nearly indestructible. In it's day it'd do 0-60 in 4.6s, a stout number even a quarter century later.

I really feel like they phoned this one in. I bet even the Toyota badges are not made by Toyota. They could have chopped and sectioned and lightened a Lexus coupe and dropped the 3.5TTV6 in that beast (which, BTW makes more power on paper than the BMW) and called it a Supra. Would a BMW still beat it? Probably, BMW is the wrong target to follow.
The people who believe in the legend of Supra would have been more forgiving of a pure-Toyota Supra being a tenth slower than a BMW, knowing they were possibly getting legendary Toyota reliability in exchange. Some buyers, only passingly familiar with the Supra legend, won't mind it's a BMW, and will appreciate it's competitive numbers. True Supra fans will avoid it and go to the auctions to pay over $50K for a 25y/o car.

Z enthusiasts are truly lucky. We get a REAL Nissan Z in the 2020's, made by the same company that made the legends. Don't compare a Z to a BMW, the BMWs always win the metric fights. Go look at YT videos of what it's like to keep a 10y/o turbo bimmer on the road, and rest assured the outdated, recycled Z with a proper TTV6 will be much easier to keep over the decades.

 

[BlkAsn]

First, it’s not a Toyota
Second, it’s a beemer which I’ve always hated
Third, it’s ugly with FAKE vents.

 

[DrivingEnthusiast]

Why no Supra?
Well, I drove a friends MKIV on the track for two years, working my way into understanding it and tuning it (myself 1st, suspension 2nd, engine 3rd) to better and more consistent laps times, and very much enjoyed having that unnatural feeling of high boost take me to >170 on the big track's straight, etc. And the challenge of when you "find boost" (as Car and Driver once put it). The owner even did some open road races and had it up to almost 190 (where hood flutter takes over!). The car was flawless (except for shoft gates far too close together), phenomenal... dead reliable, huge potential... immortal... nearly unaffected by heat - so of course I wanted to see a MKV have great success. This MKV however is not that car. I equated it to that kids fable "the king has no clothes" in my DriveTribe article (which I repeated some of in these forums).

(1) BMWs have very poor service history
(2) I am offended by fake scoops
(3) form should follow function
(4) AT THIS EARLY POINT, I believe that the Z will perform better and cost less (unless Nissan in it's hubris prices it the same as the Supra)
(5) I expected better from Toyota!

(1) The service history of BMW just gets worse and worse... VANOS has been a disaster, before that there was plastic radiators, plastic thermostat housings, warping cylinder heads, cheap trailing-arm rear suspensions, cheap single-piston brakes, numerous bad bearings, and worse. Look at some of the past cars that you might have wanted (like any V10 BMW) and you see all sorts of issues, right thru complete engine and transmission rebuilds.

(2) Fake scoops are for poseurs... and there are already too many of these in this hobby. These are people looking to make a statement about themselves with their car with fake scoops, slammed, wheels sticking out, open exhaust - all show a lack of maturity and lack of knowledge about how to make a car perform better and hwo to actually drive it and find it's potential.

(3) Everything on the MKIV Supra was functional - the famous MKIV rear wing was the result of extensive research and development in the wind tunnel and on the track. Every other part was methodically developed with performance in mind. And as we know the car was comparatively bulletproof - one of the very rare cars that was and which remain so after years of use. It's harder to say that about the 300ZX (albeit it a great effort, just not enough to equate to the MKIV Supra), and impossible to say about the RX-7 in it's last years (truly a shameful case of poor engineering, testing, and reliability)

(4) I am very familiar with the platform of the new Z, not as a Z owner but as a modified G37S owner - the car is identical underneath to all the Gs and the 370Z - with even the same part numbers for the shocks, springs, sway bars and links that I used. It's a great chassis that is still worthy (and there is no budget whatsover for another RWD ICE architecture chassis, when the company has far more pressing strategic goals and when the market for ICE dies at the end of the decade anyway).
And the turbo engine (in 400 HP form) is a terrific engine... the Z should have gone to it years ago. It doesn't have the ultimate HP potential the original Supra engine did... but then that great SUpra engine could never be emissions-compliant these days anyway (those days are over).

(5) Toyota has done some phenomenal work recently... the LFA for example. And there are Toyota chassis which could have been used to create a new Supra... the MKIV Supra chassis was used with other 2- and 4-door Toyotas and Lexi. And Toyota has a twin-turbo V-6 in progress. Akio Toyoda is himself a very accomplished driver, even with WEC and LeMans experience. It's well known that he has a unique color of MKIV at the Plano TX NA HQ for his own use. So what was he thinking with this mess? Is it meeting it's sales goals? And will BMW ever give Toyota it's top M4 engine (>500 HP) for the Supra (NO - that would raise the sticker price to over $125k)? Right now, Nissan can't deliver 500HP in a Z and is unlikely to ever do so (that's GT-R territory and will remain so). I doubt the engine in it's current develop is is capable of it and I seriously doubt if there is any budget to do so.

====
If the new Z doesn't out-perform the most powerful example of the Supra (and we will need a dead-serious comparison road test...with Randy Pobst preferably driving) then it will still be more cost-effective because of it's comparatively humble origins. So I can enjoy not having to explain the giant schnoz or all the fake vents. And the Z is a known quantity - the advantage of having the existing chassis and the existing (years now) twin turbo engine. The entire car is a known quantity. And while I'd rather have a 100% new from-the-ground-up RWD ICE showcase, that isn't going to happen ever again from Nissan - in ICE form. In electric form, the next Z will be *far* superior performer in every way... so enjoy this one while we have it. And buy it so that Nissan knows there are still performance coupe buyers.

 

[GerryZ300]

Why didn't I consider a new MKV Supra? This is why I prefer the new Z based on what's been shared so far about the Z Proto.

-It's true to form Nissan Z DNA in every aspect. (The Supra is mostly BMW)

-6-speed Manual transmission (Supra only offers Automatic)

-Styling is not over stated but hits mark with the perfect blend of Retro / Modern (Supra has too many fake vents and doesn't look much like an evolution of the MKIV that I once owned)

-Great racing heritage with Bob Sharp Racing and Paul Newman along with Steve Millen and 24 Hours of Lemans (Supra has Fast and Furious Franchise)

-The potential 400 hp Twin Turbo v6 should be powerful and reliable. (The B58 is good but it is no 2JZ-GTE)

 

[Z34_2.0]

A genius blow up his motor after mods and Toyota denied the warranty. ?

https://www.supramkv.com/threads/watch-out-for-narcs.10581/

 

[SS727Z]

A genius blow up his motor after mods and Toyota denied the warranty. ?

https://www.supramkv.com/threads/watch-out-for-narcs.10581/

What bunch of cucks...

 

[H2O_Doc]

I actually bought my Supra in part BECAUSE it had the B58 motor which I have in my M240i. I bought it based on performance and not whether or no it had automotive genetic purity. Same reason I plant to buy a Z. I’m not much interested in car eugenics.

It’s been done to death: 2JZ-GTE is an automotive anomaly, spectacular as it was, that couldn’t pass regulatory standards today. I’m ok with 400+ crank HP stock that I can take well over 500 with out a lot of money. No, it won’t hold 1,000 hp on stock internals and that’s horrible for internet warriors.

I like the looks of the blob fish Supra more than the Z and I actually like the looks of my 370 more than the new Z, but I do like the new Z.

It will be interesting owning both. I’ll focus most significant engine mods on the Z as wife won’t drive a manual. It will be much more enjoyable to mod the new Z than it was to mod my 370.

 

[Vilithrax]

Third, it’s ugly with FAKE vents.

GTR has fake vents, still a dope car

 

[Z34_2.0]

So getting back on topic. Why didn't I get a Supra? I don't want to add 4 quarts of oil every two thousand miles lol.

https://www.supramkv.com/threads/car-excessively-burning-oil.8084/