Another catch can worry...

[Tranzor Z]

For now anyway...



Over/under: August 1st
Who wants in on some of this action?!

Chris hahhahaha

 

[Xylander]

The only catch cans I make fun of are the ones installed on the clean side of the PCV system. Like, if you ever catch anything in there, you got real problems and the catch can isn't going to help.

 

[Who.Am.Eye.2716]

The only catch cans I make fun of are the ones installed on the clean side of the PCV system. Like, if you ever catch anything in there, you got real problems and the catch can isn't going to help.

There's a clean side? Can you educate me on this since the Z has TTs

 

[RHE2026]

I go with non ethanol fuel always. I am surprised Nissan did not address the PCV blow by issue with a secondary catch can inline since it’s a common problem especially on turbo engines.

 

[BigBlue]

I have an OSC catch can on my Titan with the DI VK56.

I have programmed the maintenance reminder in the truck to pop up every 5k miles (same as my oil change) to remind me to empty it.
It's about 1/2 full at that point, about 1/3c of oil.

My commute is very short, about 12 minutes every day. Even in winter, there's never any water in the catch can.

So, that 1/3c of oil is in the can, not getting coked onto the back of the intake valves. Will it prevent any buildup, no..... But I'm 100% convinced it reduces buildup.

When I first installed it, I was prepared to remove it if it had been collecting water. Apparently, some engine types with aftermarket catch can will collect water (GM V8 will do that). Water might collect quickly enough that the catch can would need frequent attention. Oil sits on top of water and if the level gets too high, you might get liquid oil into the intake, which I reckon could be more trouble than it's worth. I don't know what the consequences of that would be, but I wouldn't want to find out. Does not occur on the Nissan VK56. Also, that's why I have the reminder programmed into the truck, I think liquid oil would in the intake would be bad.

Regarding the comment about using top tier fuel, oh really? Whatever fuel you are using never touches the backside of the intake valves on a DI only engine. Fuel quality has no impact on backside valve buildup. Go ahead and use top tier fuel for other reasons, but don't think it will help for carbon buildup.

I have had the oil changed at the dealership and I have asked them to empty the catch can too, and they obliged. Fortunately I never needed to use the generous Nissan warranty for any mechanical concerns, but I would warn people that the discretion lies with each individual dealership if they hassle you or not. My dealership had no issues with my catch can, but had I needed an expensive engine repair, they may have been cool about it or they could be dicks about it. But, I knew my truck wouldn't be needing engine work, it's one of the reasons I bought it.

That's my experience with the VK56. Does the same apply to the VR30? I don't know, and I don't have any reliable information. It could very well be that a catch can is unnecessary or harmful on a VR30, although I doubt it'd be harmful. I kept my previous port injected Titan 14 years, so I intend to do whatever to reduce carbon buildup in my new Titan.

As a future Z owner, I never thought that a catch can would be a priority soon after getting a Z. I'll consider it. Nissan DI engines seem to resist buildup pretty well, the VR30 is probably going to be fine for a while.

Regarding the VR30:
I don't see how a catch can would be beneficial for track use, but then again I don't track and I don't currently own a Z.

You don't ever want to let it get so full that it could release liquid oil into the intake system. You need to check it often, and I don't know if the Z has configurable reminders like the Titan does.

Installation, how easy to install, remove and revert back to stock if needed (warranty)?

Regarding warranty, it's definitely something to consider. The VR30 engine is expensive, and a dealership and/or Nissan could deny a claim no matter what the Magnusson act says. So, tread carefully.

I suggest researching the Infiniti forums, the VR30 has been out for 10 years now and those forums should have robust discussions and maybe even some convincing "proof"

For me, during warranty period on a new Z, I'd wait on a catch can. Especially if it's difficult to remove before a major warranty claim. You can install one after warranty if research indicates it may be useful. Other Nissan DI engines seem to develop buildup that needs to be cleaned by 80-100k miles, much better than my Mk7 GTI could do.....

In Reference to top tier fuels, saying the fuel never sees the intake valve is obvious and short sighted. If you didn't know, blow-by is what causes the intake valve carbon issue. Non top tier fuels only use the minimum standards for the additive/detergent package. The top tier fuels go beyond said standard. This will go further in maintaining a proper spray pattern. A compromised injector can wash the cylinder wall and or cause incomplete combustion leading to blow by and carbon build up in the combustion chamber. Worse yet said build up can form on our low tension compression ring lands causing them to stick resulting in further blow by. The additive package itself goes along ways in reducing carbon build up in the combustion chamber. I've got 40k+ on mine. No idle/performance issues. Doesn't use oil between changes and it'll still knock down 30+mpg if driven in a normal fashion. So much for better mpg when using a 20wt. I run M1 5-30EP in everything I own with one of the cars calling for 16wt and they all get the same mpg as they did with the 16/20wt if not better.

 

[takemorepills]

In Reference to top tier fuels, saying the fuel never sees the intake valve is obvious and short sighted. If you didn't know, blow-by is what causes the intake valve carbon issue. Non top tier fuels only use the minimum standards for the additive/detergent package. The top tier fuels go beyond said standard. This will go further in maintaining a proper spray pattern. A compromised injector can wash the cylinder wall and or cause incomplete combustion leading to blow by and carbon build up in the combustion chamber. Worse yet said build up can form on our low tension compression ring lands causing them to stick resulting in further blow by. The additive package itself goes along ways in reducing carbon build up in the combustion chamber. I've got 40k+ on mine. No idle/performance issues. Doesn't use oil between changes and it'll still knock down 30+mpg if driven in a normal fashion. So much for better mpg when using a 20wt. I run M1 5-30EP in everything I own with one of the cars calling for 16wt and they all get the same mpg as they did with the 16/20wt if not better.

Carbon buildup is from oil vapor contacting the hot intake valve. Detergent fuels keep port injected intake valves nice and clean, but DI only intake valves don't benefit from fuel spray passing over them.

You sound like a product representative for a petroleum company....

 

[KrackaC8]

Carbon buildup is from oil vapor contacting the hot intake valve. Detergent fuels keep port injected intake valves nice and clean, but DI only intake valves don't benefit from fuel spray passing over them.

You sound like a product representative for a petroleum company....

There's a lot more to a fuel system than just washing over intake valves...

 

[takemorepills]

There's a lot more to a fuel system than just washing over intake valves...

I was just addressing the one statement, not trying to say anything about everything else.

There's no way high quality fuel makes a meaningful difference on intake valves in a DI-only engine. There's other reasons to use high quality fuel, but not in regards to carbon buildup on DI-only. Just talking about a single aspect.....

 

[FSUZ33]

My Z has an AOS.
It's plumbed between the crank case and intake.
It separates stuff out.
I can't see my intake valves.

Because I can't see my valves, I have no clue if it's actually working or not.
It's Schrodinger's Catch Can...both useful and useless at the same time.

 

[takemorepills]

Because I can't see my valves, I have no clue if it's actually working or not.
It's Schrodinger's Catch Can...both useful and useless at the same time.

That sums up how I feel about the one on my Titan. Probably works..... I doubt I'll keep the truck long enough to know, I'd have to pull the intake manifold at regular intervals to look, but it'd be difficult to tell unless I have another truck like mine, without it, that I could A-B against.

I used to own a Mk7 GTI and those have horrible buildup, being an enthusiast vehicle many owners definitely use only top tier fuels and they still needed frequent walnut blasting.
Frustratingly, in Europe, the EA888 engine uses dual injection, like Toyota.

We weren't really talking about catch cans on that platform, could be because that wasn't a trend 7 years ago..... But these days people are converting over to the dual injection system to avoid carbon buildup, because with the EA888 you are looking at walnut blasting every 2 years with normal driving, gets annoying and expensive.

 

[BigBlue]

Carbon buildup is from oil vapor contacting the hot intake valve. Detergent fuels keep port injected intake valves nice and clean, but DI only intake valves don't benefit from fuel spray passing over them.

You sound like a product representative for a petroleum company....

Oil vapor is blow by. Your right about it being an issue for DI engines ( except for Toyota). Even if it's not detected by looking at your dip stick all engines have a degree of blow by aka oil vapor. Good earl and dino juice does in fact help reduce the intake issue. Granted, nothing's going to help a car that gets short tripped with 10k oci. I'm not connected with the dino juice companies, but I did do 20+ years in the Aerospace industry and now I've done another 20 years in the OEM industry working with Engineers and QA Managers as a consultant. Look, I dig your content. We can agree to disagree. If you get some time, Dive a little further into this. The validity will surface.

 

[KrackaC8]

Oil vapor is blow by. Your right about it being an issue for DI engines ( except for Toyota). Even if it's not detected by looking at your dip stick all engines have a degree of blow by aka oil vapor. Good earl and dino juice does in fact help reduce the intake issue. Granted, nothing's going to help a car that gets short tripped with 10k oci. I'm not connected with the dino juice companies, but I did do 20+ years in the Aerospace industry and now I've done another 20 years in the OEM industry working with Engineers and QA Managers as a consultant. Look, I dig your content. We can agree to disagree. If you get some time, Dive a little further into this. The validity will surface.

LOL @ Toyota comment...

Actually, GM is probably better at it then anyone else.

 

[takemorepills]

Oil vapor is blow by. Your right about it being an issue for DI engines ( except for Toyota). Even if it's not detected by looking at your dip stick all engines have a degree of blow by aka oil vapor. Good earl and dino juice does in fact help reduce the intake issue. Granted, nothing's going to help a car that gets short tripped with 10k oci. I'm not connected with the dino juice companies, but I did do 20+ years in the Aerospace industry and now I've done another 20 years in the OEM industry working with Engineers and QA Managers as a consultant. Look, I dig your content. We can agree to disagree. If you get some time, Dive a little further into this. The validity will surface.

I agree with you, I thought you were mentioning that some of the injected fuel reverses out past the intake valves. I probably read your comment incorrectly.

Anyways, the carbon buildup is something enthusiasts should pay attention to. A moderate amount of buildup in a commuter car usually goes unnoticed by an indifferent driver who considers their vehicle an appliance.

For performance vehicles, it's understandable that some owners want to do whatever they can to reduce buildup. I don't see why others consider it a contentious issue.

 

[FSUZ33]

Do those who think air oil separators (catch cans) are a scam also feel that converting to port injection or adding port injection on top of direct injection is a scam also?

Speak up you tin foil hatters!

 

[BigBlue]

LOL @ Toyota comment...

Actually, GM is probably better at it then anyone else.

I can't speak to GM's system cause I quit fu@king with them decades ago due to maintenance issues. Same reason I choose the Z over the Corvette. To me saying GM and better is like saying Lawyer and honest. It just doesn't go together. Toyota's been running their D-4S system for 20+ years. Between two vehicles I've racked up around 150K with no issues and that's with 1 year or 10K OCI.