A Great Conversation with Dan Passe on 2023 Nissan Z [Specs, Release, Pricing]

[takemorepills]

Some, many of y'all be talking like the industry isn't being wrecked by manufacturing and supply issues.

If Nissan can only meet 30% of the demand for the Z, you better believe they'll find plenty of customers willing to pay up.

Only when they can (or will) manufacturer enough Z's does competitive pricing become relevant.

 

[Kbl911]

Hm....interesting analysis. I dig it. Never really thought of it in the context of the GR86/BRZ or especially the Corvette. The C8 was a radical departure from the prior generation with minimal price increase (and before someone says something about ADM's go bark up some other tree). The Z is peanuts in changes when compared to the Vette. On the other hand they do need to price it accordingly compared to the competition. But you can also get a Stang and Maro for mid 30's. And with Nissan trying to get back in the market, will be interesting to see how it shakes out.

Indeed, we'll just have to see how it shakes out for Nissan, here. I think it may be more of a mistake than they are willing to presently acknowledge but it really depends upon how the market reacts to the car in the long run. I expect strong initial sales but these are mainly people who were going to buy the new Z irrespective of price (relatively irrespective, at least).

 

[Kbl911]

Some, many of y'all be talking like the industry isn't being wrecked by manufacturing and supply issues.

If Nissan can only meet 30% of the demand for the Z, you better believe they'll find plenty of customers willing to pay up.

Only when they can (or will) manufacturer enough Z's does competitive pricing become relevant.

If that was pointed at me, then that isn't the argument, here. At least not the one I'm making.

I am questioning Nissan's decision to - if all reports are to be believed - charge a 30-plus-percent premium for the base 2023 Z over the outgoing model for seemingly no reason. That's absolutely not a typical manufacturing trend. I mean, can anyone even think of a model (from any manufacturer) where this level of price increase has occurred in recent times? Isn't something like 5-6% basically industry standard even when changing generations? There must be outliers but none spring to mind.

 

[takemorepills]

If that was pointed at me, then that isn't the argument, here. At least not the one I'm making.

I am questioning Nissan's decision to - if all reports are to be believed - charge a 30-plus-percent premium for the base 2023 Z over the outgoing model for seemingly no reason. That's absolutely not a typical manufacturing trend. I mean, can anyone even think of a model (from any manufacturer) where this level of price increase has occurred in recent times? Isn't something like 5-6% basically industry standard even when changing generations? There must be outliers but none spring to mind.

Maybe the VR30 is really expensive?
Because the current Q60 is definitely not competitively priced, and since both will be made in Japan and use the same engine, I worry the new Z will possibly be higher priced than anticipated, or may suffer the same fate as the Z32 did, if emissions legislation doesn't kill it first.

I've been very open to a new Q60, but the least expensive RWD version my dealership carries is $55k. The Red Sport with the 400HP VR30 is $62k. Do the math, chop off the back seats and sunroof and a bit of interior material quality, can the new Z really come in at the 40's?

But this discussion ignores the pandemic supply issues. What's really going to matter is dealer markups on scarce inventory.

 

[indio22]

Some, many of y'all be talking like the industry isn't being wrecked by manufacturing and supply issues.

If Nissan can only meet 30% of the demand for the Z, you better believe they'll find plenty of customers willing to pay up.

Only when they can (or will) manufacturer enough Z's does competitive pricing become relevant.

That is the crux of the matter. If Nissan is estimating a limited production of Zs, then they might not care so much losing substantial customer sales, if Nissan won't/can't produce those Zs anyway. So they might as well shoot higher for price.

 

[takemorepills]

I expect strong initial sales but these are mainly people who were going to buy the new Z irrespective of price (relatively irrespective, at least).

If that was pointed at me, then that isn't the argument, here. At least not the one I'm making.

Not just you, because almost everyone seems to disregard current circumstances.

You said "I expect strong initial sales" but how can sales be "strong" if all signs point us to scarce supply?

And I have heard for over 2 years that "any day now things will improve" remember "2 weeks to flatten the curve"? Then we get easing of restrictions in USA and a damn war breaks out.
Not to mention other important players in the global supply chain are struggling with ongoing COVID issues.

I predict full recovery to occur near the time legislation begins to really close the door on the Z.

 

[Kbl911]

Maybe the VR30 is really expensive?
Because the current Q60 is definitely not competitively priced, and since both will be made in Japan and use the same engine, I worry the new Z will possibly be higher priced than anticipated, or may suffer the same fate as the Z32 did, if emissions legislation doesn't kill it first.

I've been very open to a new Q60, but the least expensive RWD version my dealership carries is $55k. The Red Sport with the 400HP VR30 is $62k. Do the math, chop off the back seats and sunroof and a bit of interior material quality, can the new Z really come in at the 40's?

But this discussion ignores the pandemic supply issues. What's really going to matter is dealer markups on scarce inventory.

Maybe the engine itself is pricey, that's possible. But it's certainly not pricier on its own than what Chevrolet did moving the Corvette from the C7 to the C8 generations, right? We can surely agree on that. That's my point, this seems highly artificial, not rooted in a truly requisite price increase, and looking around the automotive landscape I think we can see that it's an uncommon and potentially dangerous move.

Oh, I'm only ignoring the present manufacturing circumstances because they aren't specifically relevant to the point I'm making, not because I don't think you're right on that note.

 

[West Aussie]

If that was pointed at me, then that isn't the argument, here. At least not the one I'm making.

I am questioning Nissan's decision to - if all reports are to be believed - charge a 30-plus-percent premium for the base 2023 Z over the outgoing model for seemingly no reason. That's absolutely not a typical manufacturing trend. I mean, can anyone even think of a model (from any manufacturer) where this level of price increase has occurred in recent times? Isn't something like 5-6% basically industry standard even when changing generations? There must be outliers but none spring to mind.

Maybe it’s not typical in the US but it has been done before in Aus.

As I pointed out in another thread…13 years ago the 370Z went on sale in Aus for the first time. For the base model it was 70k
over the past 13 years they slowly reduced the price as interest waned and you can supposedly still buy a new 370 now …but it will only cost you 52k. That’s a 18k DROP over the 13 years.

Now here comes the Z, and predictions are it could be between 70-90 K.
The Aussie page is in agreement that anything over 80 is too much, including myself, however we forget that it realistically is a 10k increase (if it sells for 80K) over 13 years on the original sale price of the 370Z

Its still a fair chunk, but nowhere near as much of a difference had we compared the new Z for the outgoing 370Zs price today
If we did that it could be close to a 30k difference or more than half again of the outgoing 370Z which is really quite frightening

 

[Kbl911]

You said "I expect strong initial sales" but how can sales be "strong" if all signs point us to scarce supply?

Well, that doesn't entirely make sense if you take "strong sales" to mean "selling all available units regardless of price." I didn't mean "volume sales equivalent to a Toyota Camry," after all.

 

[Kbl911]

Maybe it’s not typical in the US but it has been done before in Aus.

As I pointed out in another thread…13 years ago the 370Z went on sale in Aus for the first time. For the base model it was 70k
over the past 13 years they slowly reduced the price as interest waned and you can supposedly still buy a new 370 now …but it will only cost you 52k. That’s a 18k DROP over the 13 years.

Now here comes the Z, and predictions are it could be between 70-90 K.
The Aussie page is in agreement that anything over 80 is too much, including myself, however we forget that it realistically is a 10k increase (if it sells for 80K) over 13 years on the original sale price of the 370Z

Its still a fair chunk, but nowhere near as much of a difference had we compared the new Z for the outgoing 370Zs price today
If we did that it could be close to a 30k difference or more than half again of the outgoing 370Z which is really quite frightening

Interesting! That's certainly a unique scenario, seeing the MSRP actually drop (assuming that's what you meant) and now go back up. I've not seen something like that occur stateside, certainly not to that degree. So, I suppose I could amend the statement to omit that particular situation.

 

[Kbl911]

That is the crux of the matter. If Nissan is estimating a limited production of Zs, then they might not care so much losing substantial customer sales, if Nissan won't/can't produce those Zs anyway. So they might as well shoot higher for price.

You've hit it.

This is my ultimate fear; the one thing that, as a Z fan/owner, I don't want to admit to myself. But it's there, creeping around in my mind. The notion that Nissan is basically saying "screw 'em, take 'em for all they'll give." The complete betrayal of the Z's raison d'être.

I really hope this isn't the rationale.

 

[West Aussie]

Interesting! That's certainly a unique scenario, seeing the MSRP actually drop (assuming that's what you meant) and now go back up. I've not seen something like that occur stateside, certainly not to that degree. So, I suppose I could amend the statement to omit that particular situation.

Yep that’s what I meant
This is a quote from a car publisher back in 2009 note “damn good deal”

“The only things we miss out on are the tasty 19-inch forged Rays alloys that are available on the top-line models in the USA and Japan, but with the 370Z retailing at $67,990 for the manual and $70,990 for the automatic (less than the outgoing 350Z Track), it's a damn good deal as it stands.”

Now if you click on this link, you can see you can buy a 2022 (made in 21) for just over 50k …and if your willing to have one that’s just a year old…37k
https://www.carsguide.com.au/nissan/370z/price

Now all that remains to be seen is the Zs new price, but as stated rumours are between 70-90k with most thinking 70-80k is a fair range

 

[Blackbeard]

maybe we should get one of the big boys in here to clear shit up

 

[takemorepills]

Well, that doesn't entirely make sense if you take "strong sales" to mean "selling all available units regardless of price." I didn't mean "volume sales equivalent to a Toyota Camry," after all.

Semantics.
"Demand" is probably what you meant (or what I believe it should be)
"Sales" is how many units of something are sold.

I just don't agree that you can call something "strong sales" when production is way under demand. Even Nissan would like to sell as many Z's as possible, at the right price, if anything just to say that they "win" in some sales metric.

I'm just trying to point out, not necessarily you, but many people are postulating about these things whilst seemingly not considering the actual conditions we have been in.

 

[takemorepills]

maybe we should get one of the big boys in here to clear shit up

"Mr. Non Committal Dan Passe"?