A Great Conversation with Dan Passe on 2023 Nissan Z [Specs, Release, Pricing]

[siggy]

Seen this from a mile away. Suppose I didn’t share the same optimism as others.

 

[therumblewagon]

I asked around and though I can't conform this I can say that things don't look good for expected units. I'm trying to get a distinction between 1-3 units in the first 2-3 months or 1-3 units for 2022 because I've heard both.

Either way it seems like there wont be more than a few thousand Z cars for 2022. ?

 

[McLovin157]

Don’t take this as the absolute truth but my optimism is slowly washing away.

 

[Blackbeard]

so one bring me good news or im going to be sitting here a while lol

 

[West Aussie]

Don’t take this as the absolute truth but my optimism is slowly washing away.

welcome to the club, I think a lot of us were at the point you are about 3 months ago.
it’s been getting bleaker with every passing week

 

[LeatherWings]

so one bring me good news or im going to be sitting here a while lol

WHAT IS BEST IN LIFE?

 

[Kbl911]

So a 3.00T Supra in the states starts at 55k MSRP. So if the Z is 40-50k for the sport and performance you would be looking 5-15k cheaper. Thats a big amount for most people.

Hmmm, where are you getting that "$55k" figure from, exactly? According to Toyota's website, the 2022 3.0 base model MSRP is $51,640. And a quick glance at the equipment list reveals that model has features rather equivalent to the Performance trim Z. Basically, if the Performance with the 9-speed is approaching $50k, Nissan isn't making much of a value argument, at all, which is bad news.

Also, and I cannot be alone in this, why are so many so willing to overlook the huge price jump from the entry point of the last model year (2020) to the upcoming vehicle? The 2020 base Z had an MSRP of $30,090 in the US. Again, that's not 14 years ago, that's the most recent model produced just a few years back. I just wonder why Nissan expects people to overlook what appears to be a roughly 33% increase in price - that's ludicrous! All this while working with largely existing components, as well.

Think about it, this would be like the 2021 Toyota 86 costing $28,775 and the following model, the next-gen 2022 GR86, costing over $38,000. Or if the C8 Corvette had jumped from $56,590 to $75,000 (this would have almost been understandable given the COMPLETE overhaul!). That's a massive move upmarket no matter how you spin it.

 

[siggy]

Hmmm, where are you getting that "$55k" figure from, exactly? according to Toyota's website, the 2022 3.0 base model MSRP is $51,640. And a quick glance at the equipment list reveals that model has features rather equivalent to the Performance trim Z. Basically, the Performance with the 9-speed is approaching $50k, Nissan isn't making much of a value argument, at all, which is bad news.

Also, and I cannot be alone in this, why are so many so willing to overlook the huge price jump from the entry point of the last model year (2020) to the upcoming vehicle? The 2020 base Z had an MSRP of $30,090 in the US. Again, that's not 14 years ago, that's the most recent model produced just a few years back. I just wonder why Nissan expects people to overlook what appears to be a roughly 33% increase in price - that's ludicrous! All this while working with largely existing components, as well.

Think about it, this would be like the 2021 Toyota 86 costing $28,775 and the following model, the next-gen 2022 GR86, costing over $38,000. Or if the C8 Corvette had jumped from $56,590 to $75,000 (this would have almost been understandable given the COMPLETE overhaul!). That's a massive move upmarket no matter how you spin it.

Hm....interesting analysis. I dig it. Never really thought of it in the context of the GR86/BRZ or especially the Corvette. The C8 was a radical departure from the prior generation with minimal price increase (and before someone says something about ADM's go bark up some other tree). The Z is peanuts in changes when compared to the Vette. On the other hand they do need to price it accordingly compared to the competition. But you can also get a Stang and Maro for mid 30's. And with Nissan trying to get back in the market, will be interesting to see how it shakes out.

 

[takemorepills]

Some, many of y'all be talking like the industry isn't being wrecked by manufacturing and supply issues.

If Nissan can only meet 30% of the demand for the Z, you better believe they'll find plenty of customers willing to pay up.

Only when they can (or will) manufacturer enough Z's does competitive pricing become relevant.

 

[Kbl911]

Hm....interesting analysis. I dig it. Never really thought of it in the context of the GR86/BRZ or especially the Corvette. The C8 was a radical departure from the prior generation with minimal price increase (and before someone says something about ADM's go bark up some other tree). The Z is peanuts in changes when compared to the Vette. On the other hand they do need to price it accordingly compared to the competition. But you can also get a Stang and Maro for mid 30's. And with Nissan trying to get back in the market, will be interesting to see how it shakes out.

Indeed, we'll just have to see how it shakes out for Nissan, here. I think it may be more of a mistake than they are willing to presently acknowledge but it really depends upon how the market reacts to the car in the long run. I expect strong initial sales but these are mainly people who were going to buy the new Z irrespective of price (relatively irrespective, at least).

 

[Kbl911]

Some, many of y'all be talking like the industry isn't being wrecked by manufacturing and supply issues.

If Nissan can only meet 30% of the demand for the Z, you better believe they'll find plenty of customers willing to pay up.

Only when they can (or will) manufacturer enough Z's does competitive pricing become relevant.

If that was pointed at me, then that isn't the argument, here. At least not the one I'm making.

I am questioning Nissan's decision to - if all reports are to be believed - charge a 30-plus-percent premium for the base 2023 Z over the outgoing model for seemingly no reason. That's absolutely not a typical manufacturing trend. I mean, can anyone even think of a model (from any manufacturer) where this level of price increase has occurred in recent times? Isn't something like 5-6% basically industry standard even when changing generations? There must be outliers but none spring to mind.

 

[takemorepills]

If that was pointed at me, then that isn't the argument, here. At least not the one I'm making.

I am questioning Nissan's decision to - if all reports are to be believed - charge a 30-plus-percent premium for the base 2023 Z over the outgoing model for seemingly no reason. That's absolutely not a typical manufacturing trend. I mean, can anyone even think of a model (from any manufacturer) where this level of price increase has occurred in recent times? Isn't something like 5-6% basically industry standard even when changing generations? There must be outliers but none spring to mind.

Maybe the VR30 is really expensive?
Because the current Q60 is definitely not competitively priced, and since both will be made in Japan and use the same engine, I worry the new Z will possibly be higher priced than anticipated, or may suffer the same fate as the Z32 did, if emissions legislation doesn't kill it first.

I've been very open to a new Q60, but the least expensive RWD version my dealership carries is $55k. The Red Sport with the 400HP VR30 is $62k. Do the math, chop off the back seats and sunroof and a bit of interior material quality, can the new Z really come in at the 40's?

But this discussion ignores the pandemic supply issues. What's really going to matter is dealer markups on scarce inventory.

 

[takemorepills]

I expect strong initial sales but these are mainly people who were going to buy the new Z irrespective of price (relatively irrespective, at least).

If that was pointed at me, then that isn't the argument, here. At least not the one I'm making.

Not just you, because almost everyone seems to disregard current circumstances.

You said "I expect strong initial sales" but how can sales be "strong" if all signs point us to scarce supply?

And I have heard for over 2 years that "any day now things will improve" remember "2 weeks to flatten the curve"? Then we get easing of restrictions in USA and a damn war breaks out.
Not to mention other important players in the global supply chain are struggling with ongoing COVID issues.

I predict full recovery to occur near the time legislation begins to really close the door on the Z.

 

[Kbl911]

Maybe the VR30 is really expensive?
Because the current Q60 is definitely not competitively priced, and since both will be made in Japan and use the same engine, I worry the new Z will possibly be higher priced than anticipated, or may suffer the same fate as the Z32 did, if emissions legislation doesn't kill it first.

I've been very open to a new Q60, but the least expensive RWD version my dealership carries is $55k. The Red Sport with the 400HP VR30 is $62k. Do the math, chop off the back seats and sunroof and a bit of interior material quality, can the new Z really come in at the 40's?

But this discussion ignores the pandemic supply issues. What's really going to matter is dealer markups on scarce inventory.

Maybe the engine itself is pricey, that's possible. But it's certainly not pricier on its own than what Chevrolet did moving the Corvette from the C7 to the C8 generations, right? We can surely agree on that. That's my point, this seems highly artificial, not rooted in a truly requisite price increase, and looking around the automotive landscape I think we can see that it's an uncommon and potentially dangerous move.

Oh, I'm only ignoring the present manufacturing circumstances because they aren't specifically relevant to the point I'm making, not because I don't think you're right on that note.

 

[West Aussie]

If that was pointed at me, then that isn't the argument, here. At least not the one I'm making.

I am questioning Nissan's decision to - if all reports are to be believed - charge a 30-plus-percent premium for the base 2023 Z over the outgoing model for seemingly no reason. That's absolutely not a typical manufacturing trend. I mean, can anyone even think of a model (from any manufacturer) where this level of price increase has occurred in recent times? Isn't something like 5-6% basically industry standard even when changing generations? There must be outliers but none spring to mind.

Maybe it’s not typical in the US but it has been done before in Aus.

As I pointed out in another thread…13 years ago the 370Z went on sale in Aus for the first time. For the base model it was 70k
over the past 13 years they slowly reduced the price as interest waned and you can supposedly still buy a new 370 now …but it will only cost you 52k. That’s a 18k DROP over the 13 years.

Now here comes the Z, and predictions are it could be between 70-90 K.
The Aussie page is in agreement that anything over 80 is too much, including myself, however we forget that it realistically is a 10k increase (if it sells for 80K) over 13 years on the original sale price of the 370Z

Its still a fair chunk, but nowhere near as much of a difference had we compared the new Z for the outgoing 370Zs price today
If we did that it could be close to a 30k difference or more than half again of the outgoing 370Z which is really quite frightening