Anotha One from C&D: Comparison Test: 2022 BMW M240i vs. 2021 Ford Mustang Mach 1 vs. 2023 Nissan Z vs. 2022 Toyota GR Supra 3.0

[bboypuertoroc]

It is totally a valid point since we ARE talking similar money.

Not valid because you're talking aftermarket modifications vs run what you brung.

I do agree, the Z should've been compared against the GT, but it is what it is. We'll see what happens when the NISMO drops. Hopefully it's not just a body kit, wheels, and exhaust.

 

[rocksandblues]

I keep reading about the equalization of a tune?

Does anyone know if the Z ECU will be able to be tuned? C8, newer Supras, BMW, etc all have a high level chipset lock that has only recently been worked around at a cost of $3k

 

[because_murica]

Not valid because you're talking aftermarket modifications vs run what you brung.

I do agree, the Z should've been compared against the GT, but it is what it is. We'll see what happens when the NISMO drops. Hopefully it's not just a body kit, wheels, and exhaust.

I brung aftermarket parts



No one mentioned in several pages of posts that we were talking factory vs. factory. Rather, everyone has only been comparing $$$$. And $12k gets you a decent amount of mods.

 

[because_murica]

I keep reading about the equalization of a tune?

Does anyone know if the Z ECU will be able to be tuned? C8, newer Supras, BMW, etc all have a high level chipset lock that has only recently been worked around at a cost of $3k

I highly doubt the ecu is locked. This is Nissan. We're lucky it's not hand crank to start.

 

[White_turbo]

No one mentioned in several pages of posts that we were talking factory vs. factory. Rather, everyone has only been comparing $$$$. And $12k gets you a decent amount of mods.

I specifically said "similar money from the dealership". You just cannot compare what you can do to a car with aftermarket parts to another car that is entirely from factory. I understand you can make your car the way you want the way it performs via aftermarket but that is not the same as going to a dealer and spend the same amount of money to buy a car. If I take your idea to the extreme, I can buy a base 911 and put a huge amount of money into it to perform better than a GT3. Can it be done? Sure but your base 911 will likely not be a reliable street car anymore.

As a car enthusiast, I get your point but from an objective comparison aftermarket vs OEM is never the way to do it. Sure the Mach1 is is more money and in fact you can't really get them at all as it is somewhat limited production, so a GT with the performance pack may be a better comparison for the money.

 

[because_murica]

I specifically said "similar money from the dealership". You just cannot compare what you can do to a car with aftermarket parts to another car that is entirely from factory. I understand you can make your car the way you want the way it performs via aftermarket but that is not the same as going to a dealer and spend the same amount of money to buy a car. If I take your idea to the extreme, I can buy a base 911 and put a huge amount of money into it to perform better than a GT3. Can it be done? Sure but your base 911 will likely not be a reliable street car anymore.

As a car enthusiast, I get your point but from an objective comparison aftermarket vs OEM is never the way to do it. Sure the Mach1 is is more money and in fact you can't really get them at all as it is somewhat limited production, so a GT with the performance pack may be a better comparison for the money.

I disagree in spades. Most aftermarket mods are meant, if anything, to improve the reliability of a car - the massive heat exchanger and coolant expansion tanks from AMS for the Qs are great examples of that.

With that said, no one is suggesting tuning a stock Z to 25lbs. of boost. Rather, the mods I suggested for the $12k difference are not that invasive to the point of making the car unreliable - full bolt ons, tune, tires, and coilovers are pretty easy to do and will not make the car a ticking time bomb. The key is using a reputable shop for the tune. It would need further fine tuning as you drive the car, but it can be done easily and will not impact the reliability of the car (unless you go to a shitty tuner). Sure, while easy, it's not as easy as simply being tossed the keys by a dealer, but it's pretty damn close. Again, the shop makes all the difference. Some shops will even warranty major work.

I'm coming from a 416 procharged SS-1LE that I've been tracking for 8 years now. Zero issues to date. Clutch is the only thing that needed to be replaced, but that's to be expected. While I've never taken her ona road trip, I wouldn't hesitate to do so.

If you simply dread the idea of modding a car, fine, but this isn't the late 90s or early 2000s anymore. Decently modded cars can and do outlast stock ones, while performing at higher levels with OEM levels of drivability.

Finally, to your point re 911s, you wouldn't even need much money for a base 911 to outperform a GT3. Increased boost and some minor suspension parts will get you there.

 

[takemorepills]

I keep reading about the equalization of a tune?

Does anyone know if the Z ECU will be able to be tuned? C8, newer Supras, BMW, etc all have a high level chipset lock that has only recently been worked around at a cost of $3k

I don't think Nissan has the engineering, or bandwidth, to put effort into locking the ECU. I'm going to bet it's basically the same ECU security as on the Q.

Since we are at the twilight of ICE, and Nissan is broke, I hope, and bet, they didn't spend any money on the ECU.

 

[because_murica]

I don't think Nissan has the engineering, or bandwidth, to put effort into locking the ECU. I'm going to bet it's basically the same ECU security as on the Q.

Since we are at the twilight of ICE, and Nissan is broke, I hope, and bet, they didn't spend any money on the ECU.

Luckily, we have spy shots of the Z's ecu -

 

[Blackbeard]

its not a nissan thing i think bosch is the one sending out new production ecu already locked and encrypted

 

[trackratZ]

Let's stick to stock vs stock here. Dealing with mods should be in another thread, too many variables to compare apples to apples.

The Mach 1 is only 20 hp more than the standard GT, almost negligible, same Coyote engine. It's the suspension, brakes etc from the GT350 that makes a difference, esp the Handling Pack. Various published times:
https://www.0-60specs.com/ford/mustang-0-60-times/

Price wise the Z is more matched to the std GT Performance Pack (gone are the Levels 1 and 2 as of 2021). This is the closest fair comparison.
https://fordauthority.com/2020/10/f...e-package-2-discontinued-for-2021-model-year/
https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a34381905/ford-mustang-gt-performance-pack-level-2-dead/

I posted this before Doubt the new Z even with better rubber like Sport Cup 2s can match the PP2s 1:38:42 time, will see. Will I give up my PP2 for the Z? Dunno yet.
https://fastestlaps.com/tracks/laguna-seca-post-1988

 

[TaroBaapG35]

its not a nissan thing i think bosch is the one sending out new production ecu already locked and encrypted

Just check any 2022+ Q50/Q60 3.0T Red Sport ECU; 90% it'll be the same ECU since the entire engine is the same, why spend the money on locking the ECU? Plus the PM said they're excited to see what the aftermarket is going to do...Which is a nice way to say, "I did 80% of the work, you can do the remaining 20% if you'd like.

 

[Loco38SUP]

Luckily, we have spy shots of the Z's ecu -

That brought back memories. LMAO. ?

-RJM

 

[Blackbeard]

Just check any 2022+ Q50/Q60 3.0T Red Sport ECU; 90% it'll be the same ECU since the entire engine is the same, why spend the money on locking the ECU? Plus the PM said they're excited to see what the aftermarket is going to do...Which is a nice way to say, "I did 80% of the work, you can do the remaining 20% if you'd like.

maybe or maybe the 22 have the surplus of the batch they made , im not 100% sure whats the deal is but its like the 2020 supra wasnt locked then suddenly some later model 2021 supras and beyond are all locked now. like why go through the effort of locking all the ecu

 

[TaroBaapG35]

maybe or maybe the 22 have the surplus of the batch they made , im not 100% sure whats the deal is but its like the 2020 supra wasnt locked then suddenly some later model 2021 supras and beyond are all locked now. like why go through the effort of locking all the ecu

Because its German. Majority of German cars have locked ECUs hence how Jb4 got so popular.

 

[Blackbeard]

Because its German. Majority of German cars have locked ECUs hence how Jb4 got so popular.

yea i know my girls audi S5 is locked but yea the ecu on the new C8 were locked to even though someone came out saying they cracked the C8 ECU