Some perspective on the Z Launch!

[West Aussie]

I believe I mentioned that in my original post. The US makers were blindsided, incurred delays, likely exhausted any reserves/contingencies to make everything happen. Nissan is launching this car in the constrained environment the US automakers only partially dealt with for their launches (their cars were designed and preproduction models were already built). The Z Proto came later.

Is it any easier to procure semiconductors today? No. Is it any easier today to procure steel and other raw materials? No. Is everything more expensive? Yes, and not slowing down anytime soon. Are there still global labor shortages? Yes. Are there still labor restrictions heavily in place in Japan, China, Taiwan, and other Asian manufacturing epicenters? Yes. Unlike the Bronco and C8, the Z is built 100% in Tochigi.

The American automakers were farther ahead with those products when the pandemic hit.

My final point is this - everyone wants more specifics like price, etc. If we had that already, we'd just be in the next gripe of "We know how much it is so WHY CANT I BUY ONE?!" It's not like any of us would actually be content with "more information" in all reality.

Finally, the Z isn't late (or even delayed) by anything Nissan or Dan Passe has said so far. The first official day of Spring in North America is tomorrow, 20 March. Spring officially ends Tuesday, 21 June. (AUS spring is September to November). After they debuted the production model, they said Spring 2022. There's your window. And when it comes out, there's going to be a price on it.

You miss the point.
With a price we have choices …we know how much it will be, if we can afford it, or if we can’t in which case it’s time to drop the dream and look elsewhere.
Making excuses for not informing people is just that…an excuse

 

[Dotson]

I believe I mentioned that in my original post. The US makers were blindsided, incurred delays, likely exhausted any reserves/contingencies to make everything happen. Nissan is launching this car in the constrained environment the US automakers only partially dealt with for their launches (their cars were designed and preproduction models were already built). The Z Proto came later.

Is it any easier to procure semiconductors today? No. Is it any easier today to procure steel and other raw materials? No. Is everything more expensive? Yes, and not slowing down anytime soon. Are there still global labor shortages? Yes. Are there still labor restrictions heavily in place in Japan, China, Taiwan, and other Asian manufacturing epicenters? Yes. Unlike the Bronco and C8, the Z is built 100% in Tochigi.

The American automakers were farther ahead with those products when the pandemic hit.

My final point is this - everyone wants more specifics like price, etc. If we had that already, we'd just be in the next gripe of "We know how much it is so WHY CANT I BUY ONE?!" It's not like any of us would actually be content with "more information" in all reality.

Finally, the Z isn't late (or even delayed) by anything Nissan or Dan Passe has said so far. The first official day of Spring in North America is tomorrow, 20 March. Spring officially ends Tuesday, 21 June. (AUS spring is September to November). After they debuted the production model, they said Spring 2022. There's your window. And when it comes out, there's going to be a price on it.

There's a term widely used in the electronics industry. You may have heard of it. It's called a 'paper launch'. Basically, a company announces, demos, and provides review samples of a highly anticipated product. A release date for this incredible product, with a great price, is given to the public. However, after waiting and waiting for the release date to finally arrive, everybody is stoked, but there are very few actual products to be had.

Why would they do this? Mainly to prevent people from spending their money on competing products while buying more time to get their product ready. A company may do this full knowing well from the beginning that they could not deliver the product in quantity on the given date. After the release date, the company will make more promises that products will be arriving soon, etc. It's a shady tactic to buy time and prevent consumers from going somewhere else. I hope this isn't what Nissan is doing.

 

[NiZmonium]

Nissan not having established prices at this point is just pissing people off. I have a feeling they will blame the global market when prices finally come out at the higher end of the scale . Probably going to end up being $42k for base and $49k for premium automatic. All that $30k talk in the beginning was just to get everyone excited

 

[takemorepills]

There's a term widely used in the electronics industry. You may have heard of it. It's called a 'paper launch'. Basically, a company announces, demos, and provides review samples of a highly anticipated product. A release date for this incredible product, with a great price, is given to the public. However, after waiting and waiting for the release date to finally arrive, everybody is stoked, but there are very few actual products to be had.

Why would they do this? Mainly to prevent people from spending their money on competing products while buying more time to get their product ready. A company may do this full knowing well from the beginning that they could not deliver the product in quantity on the given date. After the release date, the company will make more promises that products will be arriving soon, etc. It's a shady tactic to buy time and prevent consumers from going somewhere else. I hope this isn't what Nissan is doing.

Rivian. They really pissed customers off a few weeks ago by announcing steep price increases to already reserved vehicles.

 

[takemorepills]

Also want to point out that the Q60 is significantly overpriced for the space it occupies.

I am a touch concerned that the Z will be priced too high, the same as the Q60. We all know it is a minor refresh of a platform (FM) that goes back 2 decades and an off the shelf engine and drivetrain. Everything else in the new Z, that y'all may think is new, really isn't. The LCD gauge cluster, infotainment are both corporate Nissan currently available in the Pathfinder, and the 9AT is also shared with currently available Nissan models.

None of that is bad, at the right price. But there's hardly any excuse for Nissan to have revealed the Z so long ago and basically released yellow Z pics and the "feelings" about the car for half a freaking year.

Go back to the 90's and see what killed the Z32. Inflation and price creep.

 

[Donalex]

Again...STOP WITH THE STUPID CONJECTURE AND ATTEMPTS TO SPREAD DISINFORMATION.

You know NOTHING, so stop trying to say SOMETHING.

Sorry, Moderators...

 

[NiZmonium]

Also want to point out that the Q60 is significantly overpriced for the space it occupies.

I am a touch concerned that the Z will be priced too high, the same as the Q60. We all know it is a minor refresh of a platform (FM) that goes back 2 decades and an off the shelf engine and drivetrain. Everything else in the new Z, that y'all may think is new, really isn't. The LCD gauge cluster, infotainment are both corporate Nissan currently available in the Pathfinder, and the 9AT is also shared with currently available Nissan models.

None of that is bad, at the right price. But there's hardly any excuse for Nissan to have revealed the Z so long ago and basically released yellow Z pics and the "feelings" about the car for half a freaking year.

Go back to the 90's and see what killed the Z32. Inflation and price creep.

It even shares parts that are in my 2010 G37 6MT Coupe lmao. The window and mirror controls . The gas , clutch and break pedals are just a few i immediately noticed.

Not to sound negative - i really do love the Z. But the only thing new on the car is the sheet metal, headlights and tail lights

 

[Andaesthetics]

You mentioned Bronco and C8. Those vehicles represent epic changes, that occurred around the time of the pandemic. Neither were evolutionary, they are both revolutionary. The new Z is only mildly evolutionary.

Nissan really jumped the gun on announcing the Z. I think they thought that the Airya was going to be possible, so they announced the Z. It is clear, in the last few years, a BEV is absolutely the worst vehicle to hang your hat on. Supply constraints just keep getting worse. Even if we ignore the supply challenges for BEV, the Airya is similar to the C8 and Bronco because it too is revolutionary. The Z should be on sale already.

I second this. The "new" Z is hardly a new car. Whereas the C8 is essentially completely new from the ground up; there's much more engineering involved, much more customization, and much more effort that goes into creating the C8 overall. So, pandemic or not I don't see any reason why it is taking this long to, AT THE VERY LEAST, get us all the details and numbers on the Z. That is what I find to be the most ridiculous part of this roll out.

At this point I'm guessing they're fine tuning details and numbers down to the wire up until release day. Other than that I see absolutely no reason to keep withholding info on the car when it's supposed to start being delivered in 3 months.

What I'm starting to think is that Nissan isn't 100% confident in how the new Z will perform compared to its competitors.

 

[Mardoc01]

Also want to point out that the Q60 is significantly overpriced for the space it occupies.

I am a touch concerned that the Z will be priced too high, the same as the Q60. We all know it is a minor refresh of a platform (FM) that goes back 2 decades and an off the shelf engine and drivetrain. Everything else in the new Z, that y'all may think is new, really isn't. The LCD gauge cluster, infotainment are both corporate Nissan currently available in the Pathfinder, and the 9AT is also shared with currently available Nissan models.

None of that is bad, at the right price. But there's hardly any excuse for Nissan to have revealed the Z so long ago and basically released yellow Z pics and the "feelings" about the car for half a freaking year.

Go back to the 90's and see what killed the Z32. Inflation and price creep.

What are your feelings about the Z. ReLly ? what would be a fair price at release for this car that you think is a good fair price ? For a car with a lot of existing g parts etc ?.

 

[Mardoc01]

I second this. The "new" Z is hardly a new car. Whereas the C8 is essentially completely new from the ground up; there's much more engineering involved, much more customization, and much more effort that goes into creating the C8 overall. So, pandemic or not I don't see any reason why it is taking this long to, AT THE VERY LEAST, get us all the details and numbers on the Z. That is what I find to be the most ridiculous part of this roll out.

At this point I'm guessing they're fine tuning details and numbers down to the wire up until release day. Other than that I see absolutely no reason to keep withholding info on the car when it's supposed to start being delivered in 3 months.

What I'm starting to think is that Nissan isn't 100% confident in how the new Z will perform compared to its competitors.

Just like above. Is this a bang for the buck or overpriced given competitors. out there I know it’s hard to find one except for maybe the Supra ?

 

[Andaesthetics]

What are your feelings about the Z. ReLly ? what would be a fair price at release for this car that you think is a good fair price ? For a car with a lot of existing g parts etc ?.

Just like above. Is this a bang for the buck or overpriced given competitors. out there I know it’s hard to find one except for maybe the Supra ?

I wouldn't even call it fair price I would say the only REASONABLE price for this car is at most ~$45k for the Performance trim. At a $45k price point it'll likely be one of the best options versus it's competitors. If it's above that I PERSONALLY believe you'd be better off spending your money else or waiting and buying one used in a year or two. Again that's just my belief.

When I say competitors I'm talking about the newest 2022 Supra, 2022 Golf R, 2022 Mustang GT, 2022 Camaro SS, 2022 Charger/Challenger Scatpack, 2022 BMW M240i.
All of those are close in price point and performance.

 

[Mardoc01]

I wouldn't even call it fair price I would say the only REASONABLE price for this car is at most ~$45k for the Performance trim. At a $45k price point it'll likely be one of the best options versus it's competitors. If it's above that I PERSONALLY believe you'd be better off spending your money else or waiting and buying one used in a year or two. Again that's just my belief.

This will most likely be my last ICE and I plan to hold this forever. So 45 k is hopeful but I would most likely go a little bit more. Wouldn’t like it but….

 

[Mardoc01]

I wouldn't even call it fair price I would say the only REASONABLE price for this car is at most ~$45k for the Performance trim. At a $45k price point it'll likely be one of the best options versus it's competitors. If it's above that I PERSONALLY believe you'd be better off spending your money else or waiting and buying one used in a year or two. Again that's just my belief.

When I say competitors I'm talking about the newest 2022 Supra, Golf R, Mustang GT, Camaro SS, Charger/Challenger Scatpack, BMW M240i.
All of those are close in price point and performance.

What other options would you consider let’s Say if the Z is marked up some ?

 

[NiZmonium]

In my honest opinion , I think $37k for the base model trim and $43k for top trim is reasonable

If I have the 6MT and LSD I'm good .

 

[Andaesthetics]

What other options would you consider let’s Say if the Z is marked up some ?

Personally I'd most likely be looking at used 2019 BMW M2 or used 2021 Supra. Or wait a year or two and get a used 2022 Z. In a year or two when I'm ready to trade in my 370Z, the prices of what I'm looking to get next should be around the same price of a new Z.