Z getting coilovers- Camber/Toe question

[Kludos]

Below is 33mm drop front 25mm rear which is factory height for HKS coilovers.

The experienced bunch can confirm or deny this, but one other thing I’ve come across when changing springs/coilovers is you should drive around for a little bit (100-200 miles) so the springs can settle, before getting an alignment.

My thought on this is the lower you go, and especially if you change to adjustable suspension components, you should probably get an alignment right after installation, monitor ride height (flat ground to fender) and the more drop you see after a couple hundred miles the more you may want to get a second alignment.

They will mostly settle after a short drive. HKS recommend 50kms, mine did the majority of settling after the first drive, I got 1-2mm extra after 50kms or so.

And yes, it's pretty sketchy to drive before the alignment.

I'm looking to drop about 1" front and 1.25" in rear. Hopefully alignment won't be way far off and still be a daily driver.

You won't be able to get factory toe and camber with that drop at the rear but it should be manageable. I could get -1.7 deg rear camber with the standard suspension and 1" of drop which is a bit aggressive for a daily.

Question to people who run coilovers with lets say an 1 inch drop. How much does it decrease the suspension travel in the back compared to stock. Since the install and drop has anybody gotten into the bump stops.

The springs are generally stiffer so you're as unlikely to hit the bump stops anymore than you would with factory suspension.

 

[OptionZero]

Assuming all of your suspension is OEM.

Would like others to chime in, but the general consensus, right or wrong, is that if you drop more than an inch you should replace suspension components, as that's the adjustability limit of the stock suspension and/or safety/performance limit.

I'm currently going through this process now. Ordered the coilovers and have about a month left before they arrive to figure out what I need. I'm only planning to drop 0.75"-1.00", and I'm told the rear OEM will accommodate that, but still researching.

Front: No OEM adjustment for camber or caster, only small adjustment for toe. Will need adjustable front upper camber arms (FUCAs). You can get a adjustable toe arms. Another option, Z1 makes a kit that gives you more adjustability with the OEM toe arm. It comes with new hardware for the eccentric side and a template to widen the slot for the eccentric bolt. With a 1.5"+ drop, you'll also want to get adjustable swaybar end links.

Rear: Pretty sure you'll need everything in the rear. Rear mid-links (for divorced setup) or camber links (for true setup). Toe arms, traction arms and swaybar end links.

You'll also need to consider NVH. I've found many more components with solid ("race") heim joints vs urethane/rubber/? bushings ("street"). 20 years ago I would have dailied an LMP1 Audi prototype, but not anymore. Heim joints do offer a more precise control, but they come at the cost of harshness and noise. I would love to do NISMO FUCAs, but they're solid/heim joint connections, and because my Z is a daily, I'm leaning toward bushed/sprung mounts vs solid/heim joints. For examples, compare the components from SPL vs. Z1's 'street' components.

I will strongly recommend AGAINST Z1 FUCAs

Per a review on their own site, they are not adjustable on car, which makes their adjustment, frankly, worthless. Your alignment tech has to guess when they first install it and then repeatedly uninstall/reinstall until they get it close to what they want. You said you went this route for a daily but customers are reporting the Z1 parts are extremely noisy. See for yourself:
https://www.z1motorsports.com/z1-pr...er-control-arms-370z-g37-q50-q60-p-11659.html

Contrast SPL/Nismo which is adjustable ON CAR. They will throw flowers at you for makin their life better

While metal parts everywhere CAN lead to NVH, i think the fear is overblown. Properly made spherical joints will result in a firmer connection but it shouldn't clank or rattle.

Also I cannot ignore that Z1 had an entire run of their previous FUCAs that were defective and badly designed. one example from G37 owners:
https://www.myg37.com/forums/brakes...-front-upper-control-arm-race-followup-4.html

This is company that outsources their manufacturing and . . . borrows designs sometimes. Not good or bad but its a level of QC they need to do but don't always do

 

[FSUZ33]

Well, crap.
Delivered to my office today, 10 minutes after I left.
I’ll think it over.
Thanks for the heads-up!

 

[OptionZero]

Returns policy:
https://www.z1motorsports.com/shipping.php

I would not put a Z1 suspension component on my car

 

[FSUZ33]

They’re going back. Should have read the reviews before I pulled the trigger. I do have some level of trust with Z1, but the reviews on those speak for themself. Probably would have decided against it after the first three.

You truly feel I won’t be unhappy with SPL/NISMO? No turning back with those, or no swapping to street/bushings. Although I’ve got some pretty good connections with machine shops.

 

[OptionZero]

They’re going back. Should have read the reviews before I pulled the trigger. I do have some level of trust with Z1, but the reviews on those speak for themself. Probably would have decided against it after the first three.

You truly feel I won’t be unhappy with SPL/NISMO? No turning back with those, or no swapping to street/bushings. Although I’ve got some pretty good connections with machine shops.

Unless you are particularly sensitive to nvh/firmness i dont think you’lll be bothered by it. Ive run them on every car ive ever had: s14, is300, z34. Never had an issues on the street

You already have a sports car with a sports car ride, the way I’d describe the change to spherical is “connectedness”. By their nature factory bushings are meant to squish a bit (of course there are levels depending on the rubber used)

Your coilover springs rates and damping, plus tire sizes have far greater effect than spherical joints on streetability. Properly selected dampers should absorb bumps so there is no jarring up/down movements. Running lower profile 20 inch tires will be worse than 18s in the same overall diameter.

dont take my word for it, this is from SPLparts website:

 

[FSUZ33]

Timeout...
Going to continue reading elsewhere, but the link and video you posted was for the tubular arms. I got the forged arms. They appear to be adjustable on-car like the SPL/NISMO (sleeved/threaded joints). Are the Z1 forged arms (and/or street bushings) known to have the same issues as the tubular ones?

https://www.z1motorsports.com/contr...-forged-front-upper-control-arms-p-48234.html

 

[OptionZero]

Timeout...
Going to continue reading elsewhere, but the link and video you posted was for the tubular arms. I got the forged arms. They appear to be adjustable on-car like the SPL/NISMO (sleeved/threaded joints). Are the Z1 forged arms (and/or street bushings) known to have the same issues as the tubular ones?

https://www.z1motorsports.com/contr...-forged-front-upper-control-arms-p-48234.html

If this is an updated design that allows adjustment on car, i retract that criticism. I don't have data on the new arms.

While this new design appears better

i still will never use a Z1 arm on any of my cars. too much history

 

[malaphasis]

Maybe Z1 should chime in on some of these boards like Stillen does. Or fix the problem if there is one.

 

[OptionZero]

Maybe Z1 should chime in on some of these boards like Stillen does. Or fix the problem if there is one.

Usually they just delete bad reviews

 

[FSUZ33]

Started a thread for feedback from people who have run the Z1 forged. No love yet, but i did read comments on another thread this morning from two people that have them and they liked them. The comments and videos I found were all about the tubular arms, or there was nothing stating whether they were tubular or forged.
I see your point about general quality issues. Just here in the past 9 months I’ve heard about multiple quality issues with completely different parts, from improperly threaded catch cans to cf engine covers with mounting bosses molded in the wrong spots.
Hopefully, soon, I’ll find info or get enough feedback here to make a good decision which direction to go.

 

[MAPerformance_]

Getting the Z lowered on coilovers this week- Most likely about 1.5"-2". I heard the rear inner tires will get worn out fast and the front tires too.
What are the parts need to correct some or all of these issues after lowering the Z?

Dropping the 2024 Z by 1.5 to 2 inches is a pretty big move since the suspension is basically the 370Z setup and gets pretty cranky once you go that low. If you don't add some supporting parts, you're definitely going to chew through the inner tread of your tires in no time because of the negative camber and toe issues that happen naturally when you lower this chassis.

For the rear, you absolutely need adjustable rear camber arms and rear toe arms. The factory bolts just don't have enough range to get things back to a safe spec after a 2 inch drop. I'd also highly recommend a lockout bolt kit to make sure your alignment doesn't slip over time.

The front is actually more of a pain because there is zero factory camber adjustment. You’ll need a set of front upper control arms to fix that inner tire wear. Brands like Z1 Motorsports or SPC are common choices, but make sure you get ones designed for a lowered car so they don't hit the top of the strut tower on bumps.

Also, let the coilovers settle for a few days before you take it in for the final alignment, or you'll just end up having to do it twice once the springs find their final height.

 

[OptionZero]

Dropping the 2024 Z by 1.5 to 2 inches is a pretty big move since the suspension is basically the 370Z setup and gets pretty cranky once you go that low. If you don't add some supporting parts, you're definitely going to chew through the inner tread of your tires in no time because of the negative camber and toe issues that happen naturally when you lower this chassis.

For the rear, you absolutely need adjustable rear camber arms and rear toe arms. The factory bolts just don't have enough range to get things back to a safe spec after a 2 inch drop. I'd also highly recommend a lockout bolt kit to make sure your alignment doesn't slip over time.

The front is actually more of a pain because there is zero factory camber adjustment. You’ll need a set of front upper control arms to fix that inner tire wear. Brands like Z1 Motorsports or SPC are common choices, but make sure you get ones designed for a lowered car so they don't hit the top of the strut tower on bumps.

Also, let the coilovers settle for a few days before you take it in for the final alignment, or you'll just end up having to do it twice once the springs find their final height.

yup

SPL parts everything

 

[mgraves88]

I have had swift springs on the st

I'm looking to drop about 1" front and 1.25" in rear. Hopefully alignment won't be way far off and still be a daily driver.

Anyone have this drop setup on their Z and comment on clearance for daily driving and tire wear?

I have the Swift lowering springs on my Z and it looks and feels better then stock. I also have 25mm spacers all the way around to fill out the gap in the fender.

The good.. looks sick, handles a little better kinda...

the bad.. the drop threw my toe out in the rear and scrubbed my tires to threads. I had to install adjustable chamber and traction arms but the real fix im going with is the Z1 toe bolts.. you grind out a bit of the subframe and the eccentric bolt then has more travel to adjust toe.

Did the arms but waiting for some better weather to do the toe bolts.. lowering springs are the cheaper option but if you think you might want more adjustment I would save for a decent set of coilovers.. think thats what im going to do now that I feel I want more options.

 

[Kludos]

I ended up going with some parts from a local aussie brand gktech - camber arms, adjustable toe spring buckets, and two eccentric delete kits.

The toe buckets aren't as sexy (or expensive) as the nismo or SPL ones, but they play nice with the HKS springs while also allowing me to run any 2.5" ID spring down the track. Now I just need to take it back to the alignment shop.