Hit a deer, hood poppers deployed

[up4speed]

Yes, I had not replaced the impact sensors prior to have computer reset. I wrongly assumed that the air bag module reset would take care of it. Apparently, those are one time use items that once triggered are no longer good. Which means the pop up eliminator kit is only partially valid. You will still have to replace impact sensors. I am currently searching for a code reader specific to Nissan that will be able to clear the codes. Has anyone found one yet? I can say the Innova 5610 I bought will not work.

So just to clarify, you needed to get the computer reset or replaced either way, but since you hooked up the battery with the bad bumper sensors, it triggered a code. So now you also have to replace the bumper sensors, and then figure out how to clear the code that triggered? And then you should be fine?
Or do you have to send the computer out to be reset a second time because the car thinks that the bumper sensor triggered again?
I don't know why Nissan made it so complicated!

 

[RadzShadow]

And ... is there another 'bypass' to these sensors that is available OR are these part of the safety 'features' such as the automatic braking under cruise control?
The more crap I can get rid of, the better.

 

[FSUZ33]

i assume anything/everything communicating with the SRS/airbag system is purposefully difficult to bypass.

 

[splatrd]

So just to clarify, you needed to get the computer reset or replaced either way, but since you hooked up the battery with the bad bumper sensors, it triggered a code. So now you also have to replace the bumper sensors, and then figure out how to clear the code that triggered? And then you should be fine?
Or do you have to send the computer out to be reset a second time because the car thinks that the bumper sensor triggered again?
I don't know why Nissan made it so complicated!

That is the plan. I am still waiting on new sensors to show up. I also ordered a Nissan specific code reader that the seller claims will read and clear air bag codes. Will let everyone know how it works out. This has been a very drawn out and annoying ordeal. I know people will say just take to dealer or body shop. I did not want to run through insurance since I had just made a claim in May when tree fell on my house. Likely would have jacked rates or cancelled me if I made another claim this soon. Plus, I did not like the idea of leaving my car at some shop for unknown length of time. I did consult one shop, but they were not interested in doing the job. I do not trust any dealerships, especially for body work. I have seen firsthand the kind of work they do as I used to do body work in the 90's.

 

[up4speed]

That is the plan. I am still waiting on new sensors to show up. I also ordered a Nissan specific code reader that the seller claims will read and clear air bag codes. Will let everyone know how it works out. This has been a very drawn out and annoying ordeal. I know people will say just take to dealer or body shop. I did not want to run through insurance since I had just made a claim in May when tree fell on my house. Likely would have jacked rates or cancelled me if I made another claim this soon. Plus, I did not like the idea of leaving my car at some shop for unknown length of time. I did consult one shop, but they were not interested in doing the job. I do not trust any dealerships, especially for body work. I have seen firsthand the kind of work they do as I used to do body work in the 90's.

I totally understand, I feel the same way about the shops and do a lot (basically all) of my own work as well. Please keep us updated. I would like to learn how Nissan decided to design this obvious disaster. One never knows when they are the next victim with this stuff.

 

[alienpoker]

There are lots of other forums (Jag & BMW) that discuss the whole hood popper and pedestrian sensor nightmare. Especially on the early Jag systems hood poppers went off on their own or with hardly any external force. Cost to replace poppers & hood at a Jag dealership was >$5K …

In addition to the bumper sensors, it’s likely there is an optical strip behind the bumper sensing lphysical impact. You have to be traveling say 6mph before the system is ‘armed’. So someone kicking the bumper on your car when it’s stationary shouldn’t set it off. There’s also a top speed over which it’s also disabled. I’m sure of this. I hit and deflected something on the road at freeway speed (above 60mph) which I couldn’t avoid, but the poppers didn’t go off.

Bumper impact sensors can be removed / defeated, but you would still have to program the MRS (airbag control module). It would need to have the VCO settings (car’s specific extra options) from a car without hood poppers / pedestrian sensors.

Sometimes you can just uncheck a box in config software to say the sensors aren’t there. With some manufacturers it’s all been locked down & the software has a server that authenticates to capture any changes you try to make. As @FSUZ33 said, it’s no easy task to remove safety options.

It’s going to be easier to fool the MRS into thinking the sensors are there, and sending back what it expects to see. Easy with the poppers, which work like an airbag. But - not so easy with the pedestrian bumper sensors. They get initialized and then ‘talk’ on a data bus giving constant feedback. You can’t just substitute it with a simple resistor.

Some pedestrian systems also coordinate data from the front facing camera… this includes the Nissan ‘Saftey Shield 360’ from the research I’ve read.

I wish there weren’t 100 computers in cars these days. I like Analogue things more and more as I get older.

 

[5amp5on]

There are lots of other forums (Jag & BMW) that discuss the whole hood popper and pedestrian sensor nightmare. Especially on the early Jag systems hood poppers went off on their own or with hardly any external force. Cost to replace poppers & hood at a Jag dealership was >$5K …

In addition to the bumper sensors, it’s likely there is an optical strip behind the bumper sensing lphysical impact. You have to be traveling say 6mph before the system is ‘armed’. So someone kicking the bumper on your car when it’s stationary shouldn’t set it off. There’s also a top speed over which it’s also disabled. I’m sure of this. I hit and deflected something on the road at freeway speed (above 60mph) which I couldn’t avoid, but the poppers didn’t go off.

Bumper impact sensors can be removed / defeated, but you would still have to program the MRS (airbag control module). It would need to have the VCO settings (car’s specific extra options) from a car without hood poppers / pedestrian sensors.

Sometimes you can just uncheck a box in config software to say the sensors aren’t there. With some manufacturers it’s all been locked down & the software has a server that authenticates to capture any changes you try to make. As @FSUZ33 said, it’s no easy task to remove safety options.

It’s going to be easier to fool the MRS into thinking the sensors are there, and sending back what it expects to see. Easy with the poppers, which work like an airbag. But - not so easy with the pedestrian bumper sensors. They get initialized and then ‘talk’ on a data bus giving constant feedback. You can’t just substitute it with a simple resistor.

Some pedestrian systems also coordinate data from the front facing camera… this includes the Nissan ‘Saftey Shield 360’ from the research I’ve read.

I wish there weren’t 100 computers in cars these days. I like Analogue things more and more as I get older.

Great info thank you.

It's in the manual but if I remember correctly the system deactivates at like 38 mph or somewhere around there. I'm sure someone will look it up and post the correct number.

 

[splatrd]

I totally understand, I feel the same way about the shops and do a lot (basically all) of my own work as well. Please keep us updated. I would like to learn how Nissan decided to design this obvious disaster. One never knows when they are the next victim with this stuff.

I finally received my sensors, and I pulled the bumper off to replace them only to find there are 5 sensors not just 3. Parts diagrams I found on Nissan site for ordering parts did not specify that there are 5. It just listed center, left and right. There are two each left and right. One upper and one lower on each side. This has turned into a very expensive nightmare for something that is completely unnecessary. If you look at attached images you can see them. Right side are grey, center is brown, and left side are black. The other sensors with blue wires are for parking sensors. It is no wonder cars are astronomically priced now. I just placed an order for two more sensors. That is now close to $1k in sensors for a worthless POS system. Including a picture of one sensor. It is just a small molded plastic piece.

 

[alienpoker]

I don’t mean to contradict, and maybe it has changed… but there is no requirement to change every sensor.

Nissan mandates replacement if it has received impact or has been dropped. Additionally the bracket can not be damaged or bent. I can find no indication that these are ‘one time’ use items. It does say the bolts and nuts securing the sensor need to be replaced and torqued to spec every tine the bumper is removed, but I don’t think it’s an indication to replace every sensor prior to testing and clearing the ‘airbag system’ fault codes.

The repair information I have access to (i-Car Collision repair and Nissan Service Manuals) says to use Consult 3+ software to check DTC codes for the 5 sensors, and replace if they fail testing. You then check for the Airbag Control Module self tests and if that passes, no further action is needed. You *may* have to replace the Airbag Control Module if you can’t get it to pass self tests after hood poppers have deployed. BTW -You could have bought the correct ODBC cable and a license to use Consult 3 on a laptop (for a day or two) for less than the cost of all 5 sensors. If it was me, I probably would only replace the two sensors on the side that actually received the impact.

I would suspect (but do not actually know for sure) that a Nissan dealership would replace all 5 sensors, as it is a safety issue and part of the MRS (Multi-Restraint System) They wouldn’t want to be sued if the system failed to deploy after a repair…

There is s lot of BS about the poppers throwing a pedestrian over the car on other threads. What the system actually does is to let you have a sleek Z hood line. NTHSA and other worldwide safety boards don’t want the pedestrian’s skull to directly impact the engine block (or in our case probably the heat exchangers, strut bars, etc). The poppers provide a cushioning effect and provides space for the hood to deform as designed.

Seems like a particularly stupid design solution to me. On the 370Z there were just ‘hooks’ at the back of the aluminum hood that interlocked upon impact. Then the hood became the ‘crumple zone’ for a pedestrian or animal. There was more space between the engine & the hood though. But the solution used physics and not airbags & sensors. You have to replace the hood & bumper anyway if you hit something hard enough.

I attach a few images from the info I have access to…

 

[Supremekai]

…

There is s lot of BS about the poppers throwing a pedestrian over the car on other threads. What the system actually does is to let you have a sleek Z hood line. NTHSA and other worldwide safety boards don’t want the pedestrian’s skull to directly impact the engine block (or in our case probably the heat exchangers, strut bars, etc). The poppers provide a cushioning effect and provides space for the hood to deform as designed.

Yet they allow trucks with hoods to be as tall as a person, and in case of the cybertruck, sharp corners and edges.

 

[splatrd]

Very happy to report that I was able to get everything back together and codes cleared. I bought a Foxwell NT710 off Ebay for right at $200 with coupon. for NISSAN Full Bidirectional Auto OBD2 Scanner Diagnostic Scan Tool E-CU Coding | eBay
I was also able to cancel the order for the additional 2 sensors, as they were not needed. This has been a very long and stressful ordeal. Hopefully, my experience will help others avoid or repair on their own. This has prevented me from driving it for nearly 2 months waiting on parts and adequate repair information. I don't even want to know what the Dealer would have charged.

 

[alienpoker]

Well done, Sir!
I’m so glad to hear you didn’t need to replace all the N25NN24201013C Pedestrian sensors. They’re ~$200 ea discounted. My info shows they shouldn’t need replacement & even if they were less sensitive but still passed self tests, wouldn’t that be a good thing?
Less chance of going off.

Anyone else having this problem: Don’t try to initialize the “Airbag computer” with the bumper off. You need to remove the negative side of the battery and not reconnect until everything is buttoned back up: All sensors connected and hood popper delete kit (or new hood poppers) are correctly installed.

You might actually want to know this… I’ve done collision repair estimates in the past. An estimate of $$ saved vs a Nissan dealer:

Many $1000s incl mandatory replacement of hood poppers & sensors at MSRP:
Poppers $1200 ea x 2 = $2400
Pedestrian sensors $300ea x 5 = $1500
Reprogram MRS computer (or replace $1000)
Diagnostics, recalibration & testing. ? $1.5-2K
Depends on dealership service center. I’ve had them try to mark up my parts over MSRP.
I assume the bumper & brackets are fine, and no bodywork or paint is needed. That’s extra.

At least $5-6K wouldn’t surprise me at all. So- to go back to OEM factory spec, it would be crazy not to pay the deductible & go through insurance.

BTW- I would be interested if the Foxwell odbc scanner can access any audio / infotainment settings or other ‘hidden’ settings ? Sounds like a nice bit of kit to have. I’ve saved a fortune on a BMW Z4 being able to scan deeper, reset modules (like just changing a battery!) & reset codes.

 

[up4speed]

Very happy to report that I was able to get everything back together and codes cleared. I bought a Foxwell NT710 off Ebay for right at $200 with coupon. for NISSAN Full Bidirectional Auto OBD2 Scanner Diagnostic Scan Tool E-CU Coding | eBay
I was also able to cancel the order for the additional 2 sensors, as they were not needed. This has been a very long and stressful ordeal. Hopefully, my experience will help others avoid or repair on their own. This has prevented me from driving it for nearly 2 months waiting on parts and adequate repair information. I don't even want to know what the Dealer would have charged.

I'm so happy for you that you got it sorted! Definitely a stressful situation.
I'm sure your info will help others in the future

 

[splatrd]

Well done, Sir!
I’m so glad to hear you didn’t need to replace all the N25NN24201013C Pedestrian sensors. They’re ~$200 ea discounted. My info shows they shouldn’t need replacement & even if they were less sensitive but still passed self tests, wouldn’t that be a good thing?
Less chance of going off.

Anyone else having this problem: Don’t try to initialize the “Airbag computer” with the bumper off. You need to remove the negative side of the battery and not reconnect until everything is buttoned back up: All sensors connected and hood popper delete kit (or new hood poppers) are correctly installed.

You might actually want to know this… I’ve done collision repair estimates in the past. An estimate of $$ saved vs a Nissan dealer:

Many $1000s incl mandatory replacement of hood poppers & sensors at MSRP:
Poppers $1200 ea x 2 = $2400
Pedestrian sensors $300ea x 5 = $1500
Reprogram MRS computer (or replace $1000)
Diagnostics, recalibration & testing. ? $1.5-2K
Depends on dealership service center. I’ve had them try to mark up my parts over MSRP.
I assume the bumper & brackets are fine, and no bodywork or paint is needed. That’s extra.

At least $5-6K wouldn’t surprise me at all. So- to go back to OEM factory spec, it would be crazy not to pay the deductible & go through insurance.

BTW- I would be interested if the Foxwell odbc scanner can access any audio / infotainment settings or other ‘hidden’ settings ? Sounds like a nice bit of kit to have. I’ve saved a fortune on a BMW Z4 being able to scan deeper, reset modules (like just changing a battery!) & reset codes.

I am not sure about additional settings access, as I have not explored that yet. I can tell you that when I did a basic scan of all systems it did show audio error codes. I installed a subwoofer and used an interface cable that bypasses the ANC. The error code was for the missing microphone signals. It did allow me to clear all codes. Will have to look into other capabilities.

 

[splatrd]

For those following this, here is break down of cost involved to get back up and running. Please note I was fortunate that there was no body/paint damage worthy of fixing.
Front license plate mount: $50 (required in my state)
Nengun eliminator kit : $175 (tariffs and shipping hit hard, plus 5 weeks delivery time)
Main Airbag computer reset : $120 (now that I have the scanner, I am not sure it was necessary. Plus it was a royal pain to get to)
Pedestrian impact sensors: $550 (I bought three of the 5 total at $180 each)
Nissan specific Scanner: $205 (got lucky and was able to order on Ebay special sale, saved $50)

That comes to a grand total of $1100. So, with my $1000 deductible I would have been worse off running through insurance. Of course, this would have been much more had I replaced or repaired the popper themselves.
In hindsight, I should have bought the scanner first to see what had to be replaced versus just reset.