What car are you getting instead of the Z?

[tcaustin]

A GR86, it's got just enough performance for any *real world driving scenario now. I could careless about the "gapplebees" bros and all the other bs nonsense scenarios that people come up with to try and trash the car. All this stuff is starting to be phased out, I'm just trying to enjoy a simple performance car at this point.

My father in law has the 2022 BRZ in manual transmission; he loves it. He let me drive it. He also took me for a drive up to 129mph.

 

[Houston.RZ34]

Waiting for the bubble to bust and see if used cars go back to "normal"

 

[trackratZ]

Amazing! I've got a Black Club soft top on order, without the Recaro/BBS/Brembo package. I actually test drove a Miata Grand Touring yesterday at the dealer my order is through, and it reaffirmed my decision to get an ND2. Just soooo damn fun. It was used car, so I opened it up a bit and maybe even did a little powerslide U-turn at a stoplight....

With the used car, they just wanted me to keep my test drive under 100 miles... "Will do!" I said!

Yeah, it's funny cuz I've now got an NA Miata, have an ND2 on the way, never owned a Z, but I'm on this forum and not Miata.net lol.

I think the Miata forum is a phenomenal resource, but it's absolutely massive, and I enjoy the interactions here at the 'Z club.'

My 1st car was a Sentra, my second car was/is an Xterra, so I'm a little bummed to not be carrying on the Nissan tradition (for now), but I'm on the same page with you about the new Z availability, cost, etc...

Just sold my built Xterra, was the saddest sale I've had of vehicles owned. That rig took me everywhere, off-roading/crawling, towing my Z to tracks, no issues. Will be missed!

Agree, I visit this forum lots more than mustang6g and jeepgladiator eventhough not sure of getting the new Z yet. Guess I'm still a diehard Nissan fan, owned several 240Zs, Maxima, G35S. And....maybe....you guys are just too nice!

 

[romanLegion]

Waiting for the bubble to bust and see if used cars go back to "normal"

Rumor has it that it may till 2024 before the bubble bursts.

 

[romanLegion]

Yea I'd love the GT4, but a bit more $$ then I'd like to spend if I wanna stay married, similarly to the M2 CS (But I want that F80 M3 engine!), so yea the M2 Comp is last standing vs Z in terms of price iish. The reason I'm not going Am is the reliability, as I really don't want to allocate that much money towards repairs....damn decisions....

The M2C has the F80 M3 engine, but detuned; don't need the M2CS for that.

If maintenance costs are a concern, I'd recommend the Emira. You could hypothetically get it for less than an M2CS or GT4 (assuming you found a dealer who honors MSRP) and have the 3.5L V6 serviced by a Toyota dealer, since it is a Camry motor with a supercharger on top.

Alternatively, I'd recommend the Supra. Hits most of your asks: much cheaper than a GT4 or M2CS, blends JDM and Euro styling, is reliable (the B58 was already reliable, and then Toyota stepped in to make it even more reliable), handles well. If a manual is a must, you're probably looking at a similar wait between the Z, manual Supra, and Emira to hit dealerships.

 

[rocksandblues]

The M2C has the F80 M3 engine, but detuned; don't need the M2CS for that.

If maintenance costs are a concern, I'd recommend the Emira. You could hypothetically get it for less than an M2CS or GT4 (assuming you found a dealer who honors MSRP) and have the 3.5L V6 serviced by a Toyota dealer, since it is a Camry motor with a supercharger on top.

Alternatively, I'd recommend the Supra. Hits most of your asks: much cheaper than a GT4 or M2CS, blends JDM and Euro styling, is reliable (the B58 was already reliable, and then Toyota stepped in to make it even more reliable), handles well. If a manual is a must, you're probably looking at a similar wait between the Z, manual Supra, and Emira to hit dealerships.

The Emira is really tempting. I have driven an Evora and wow.
My problem is closest dealer is 2 states away and the waiting list is reallllly long. When i called a dealer i would be way down on the list and that = at least 2024

For 20k more than an Emira a GT4 is more than worth it. imho
Track buddy has a 2016 GT4 and it is basically amazing and perfect.

I am a BMW fan boi.... admittedly. Having owned dozens of BMWs including still owning an old M3 I REALLY shopped the M2 hard when looking a Zupra. And even as such a BMW fan i chose the Zupra over the M2. Have never owned a Toyota before in my life.

 

[West Aussie]

The Emira is really tempting. I have driven an Evora and wow.
My problem is closest dealer is 2 states away and the waiting list is reallllly long. When i called a dealer i would be way down on the list and that = at least 2024

For 20k more than an Emira a GT4 is more than worth it. imho
Track buddy has a 2016 GT4 and it is basically amazing and perfect.

I am a BMW fan boi.... admittedly. Having owned dozens of BMWs including still owning an old M3 I REALLY shopped the M2 hard when looking a Zupra. And even as such a BMW fan i chose the Zupra over the M2. Have never owned a Toyota before in my life.

The Emira costs 177k PLUS onroad costs in Australia…that’s the base model.
If it only cost 100k (20k more than the Z) I’d buy it too …sadly I can’t afford more than double the Z and the insurance would be outrageous

 

[rocksandblues]

The Emira costs 177k PLUS onroad costs in Australia…that’s the base model.
If it only cost 100k (20k more than the Z) I’d buy it too …sadly I can’t afford more than double the Z and the insurance would be outrageous

WOW! First release of Emira in states is listed at around 80k

 

[trackratZ]

Alternatively, I'd recommend the Supra. Hits most of your asks: much cheaper than a GT4 or M2CS, blends JDM and Euro styling, is reliable (the B58 was already reliable, and then Toyota stepped in to make it even more reliable), handles well. If a manual is a must, you're probably looking at a similar wait between the Z, manual Supra, and Emira to hit dealerships.

How did Toyota make the B58 more reliable, haven't heard details on this? I've owned a couple of Bimmers before and some are just too delicate with rod bearing issues, and on the E46 was the Vanos exhaust hub problems.

 

[rocksandblues]

How did Toyota make the B58 more reliable, haven't heard details on this? I've owned a couple of Bimmers before and some are just too delicate with rod bearing issues, and on the E46 was the Vanos exhaust hub problems.

I will look for the article that goes through what Toyota looked at and added.

It is stout- so far for me- with 17k 90% track miles. That is basically a full pull to 140-160mph (depending on track) every 1:30-2mins ALL DAY 20-30 mins at a time. And not on a straight it is still always around 4500-6000k

as a member of many Supra groups i am not aware of any major issues.

BMW bearing issues were largely due to people ignoring oil temp lights after a cold start.

My daily is an e46 m3. rod bearings are perfect- but i have the patience to let oil get up to temp. But i DID have to rebuild my vanos pump. Not a big deal when you consider it is 20 years old, still looks and drive amazing, and brings a smile that a typical commuter car just can not.

 

[trackratZ]

I will look for the article that goes through what Toyota looked at and added.

It is stout- so far for me- with 17k 90% track miles. That is basically a full pull to 140-160mph (depending on track) every 1:30-2mins ALL DAY 20-30 mins at a time. And not on a straight it is still always around 4500-6000k

as a member of many Supra groups i am not aware of any major issues.

BMW bearing issues were largely due to people ignoring oil temp lights after a cold start.

My daily is an e46 m3. rod bearings are perfect- but i have the patience to let oil get up to temp. But i DID have to rebuild my vanos pump. Not a big deal when you consider it is 20 years old, still looks and drive amazing, and brings a smile that a typical commuter car just can not.

Good to know firsthand exp, thx! Does the B58 still require 10/60 Castrol or similar? Wonder what’s the best oil weight for tracking the VR30? I’ll be pushing it for sure, 4 or 5 x 20 min sessions

 

[rocksandblues]

Good to know firsthand exp, thx! Does the B58 still require 10/60 Castrol or similar? Wonder what’s the best oil weight for tracking the VR30? I’ll be pushing it for sure, 4 or 5 x 20 min sessions

The oil debates get tedious online....
But for the Zupra OEM is 0w20!!! tight tolerances and a LOT online about how great modern oil is and how the choices are increasingly because of fuel economy- thinner oil lets parts spin free-er

There have been no issues due to weight and engine longevity. Lots of people out there with 50-70,000 mile Zupras now.

Because i track it almost exclusively i run Liqui-Moly 5-30 LL-Euro spec No issues- knocking on wood.

I don't know enough- yet- about the Z engine to recommend one thing or the other. If just once or twice a year track I would stick with OEM and your warranty. If going down the whole track rabbit hole i am sure there will be a couple guys blazing a trail.


EDIT: i see your handle and pics now..... LOL Lot of people will be learning the track stuff real quick when they come out. Ever want a cheap track day in VA PM me

 

[romanLegion]

How did Toyota make the B58 more reliable, haven't heard details on this? I've owned a couple of Bimmers before and some are just too delicate with rod bearing issues, and on the E46 was the Vanos exhaust hub problems.

Toyota did reliability testing of the B58 and asked for redesigns of parts that failed the Toyota reliability standards. Apparently, this was also the case for the boxer engine in the 86 as well.

So the final design is entirely BMW, but Toyota had a hand throughout development.

 

[bboypuertoroc]

Ever want a cheap track day in VA PM me

Hell I might have to hit you up when I get my Evo back down here. Haven't raced in VA (VIR) since 2005 with my Eclipse.