Road & Track Review: 2023 Z Performance vs. 2022 Toyota Supra 3.0

[Kbl911]

It's a different perspective. You are specifically talking about the "skinny pedal" which the critic did mention several times that the BMW is way more powerful, he described the torque advantage, lack of turbo lag, smoother inline six and pulls harder to redline.

The perspective that the critic brings is likely very similar to most of us Z fans who aren't constantly saying how much better a Mustang/Camaro/BMW/C8 on this forum.

Y'all focus on certain metrics to bitch about the Z, but a lot of us are looking at different things. I, for one, prefer the Z's interior, greenhouse and the fact that it's made in Japan. So, I totally agree with the article.

Exactly, there are absolutely different ways to measure a vehicle's enjoyment factor, that's pretty subjective. I think that this specific critic was stepping outside of the more numerical/objective analysis and offering a perspective along different lines. It's kind of a shock to the system, since seemingly few others have been willing to do that (at least not the big publications).

 

[Denton]

This is the Armond White of reviews.

It's kind of a shock to the system, since seemingly few others have been willing to do that (at least not the big publications).

I'm not sure that it's that much of a shock. If you think about it, it's not like coke/pepsi is a 50/50 split. Maybe there are just more "mainstream" reviewers out there that resonate with the things that the Supra offers (over what the Z offers) & that's going to change the focus of the review. I don't think that this makes the review any more or less valid in general - but if the things in the review resonate with you, then I think that's a good sign for your future enjoyment of the Z.

 

[280driver]

All the comparisons I’ve read where the Supra has come out on top also point out that the Z is a better all-around car while the Supra is the better/faster track car. The Road & Track review was just the first to understand that’s what the majority of owners want in a sports car. I have lots of friends with sports cars. None track them.

 

[takemorepills]

We see several members on here lambast the Z for it's performance metrics, especially on a track.
It's almost as if those people fancy themselves as track whores. If track worthiness is so important to an individual, just move on. There's way better track machines. No reason to come onto the forum and be like "see, I told you so, 1 second slower lap! What a POS!"
Ok, now go buy the Camaro and get down to the track. Hopefully you'll be so busy tracking your superior machine, you'll have no time to come around groups of people who like the Z and repetively rehash the same gripes over and over.

My Q60 would be slaughtered by a BMW Supra on the track, however, it's capable of being a total dick on public roads in the blink of an eye. It would be irresponsible for a Supra and myself to try and "prove something" in the public space. I give zero effs about what a car can do on the track. It's totally irrelevant on the street, where every single car I've ever owned has stayed.

 

[Jah_Happy]

We see several members on here lambast the Z for it's performance metrics, especially on a track.
It's almost as if those people fancy themselves as track whores. If track worthiness is so important to an individual, just move on. There's way better track machines. No reason to come onto the forum and be like "see, I told you so, 1 second slower lap! What a POS!"
Ok, now go buy the Camaro and get down to the track. Hopefully you'll be so busy tracking your superior machine, you'll have no time to come around groups of people who like the Z and repetively rehash the same gripes over and over.

My Q60 would be slaughtered by a BMW Supra on the track, however, it's capable of being a total dick on public roads in the blink of an eye. It would be irresponsible for a Supra and myself to try and "prove something" in the public space. I give zero effs about what a car can do on the track. It's totally irrelevant on the street, where every single car I've ever owned has stayed.

Yeah that's pretty much my view as well. I just do not give a bakers fuck about lap times.

 

[takemorepills]

Yeah that's pretty much my view as well. I just do not give a bakers fuck about lap times.

Just drove by a beautiful Challenger widebody a moment ago. Those cars are total pigs, really not competitive in any way against the Camaro and mustang. But damn I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't want one. Personally, I'd take a widebody Challenger any day over a Camaro or Mustang.

 

[BraveDemon]

Yeah that's pretty much my view as well. I just do not give a bakers fuck about lap times.

Honestly most people who buy these cars will never see a track but track comparisons are an objective measure of a cars performance.

For me cost to performance matters - if I’m buying a $50k-$60k sports car, it needs to be competitive with others in the same price category from the factory. If I can get a Z at MSRP, I think it’s worth it. This is the last ICE Z we will have and I want to own one. But if a dealer wants $60k+, forget it - it’s not worth that at all in my opinion. I paid $57k for my 22 3.0 premium with driver assist tech in Jan of this year, and the Z perf needs to come in under that for me to buy… and that doesn’t look likely this year.

I personally think RTs take on the Supra is spot on - I can roast the tires if I tap the throttle suddenly or too fast and I don’t fully trust it yet. Although I never viewed this as a “bug”, but more of a “feature” to let me go HAM if I want to.

End of the day - we all need to get behind the wheel of Z and determine for ourselves.

 

[DevonK]

I'm with takemorepills on the general irrelevance of track metrics, it's the subjective experiential aspects of the drive that are important for most of us, not the numbers. That said, it's important for reviewers to drive the Z on track as well as street, as doing so will more quickly and fully reveal the characteristics of the car's handling and feel at or near the limit. And it will also give reviewers better insight into how much fun is to be had pushing the car hard in a safe environment. While these considerations may not be relevant for a family sedan review, they are for a relatively high performance sports car, whether or not a specific buyer plans to track it or not.

 

[Jah_Happy]

Honestly most people who buy these cars will never see a track but track comparisons are an objective measure of a cars performance.

For me cost to performance matters - if I’m buying a $50k-$60k sports car, it needs to be competitive with others in the same price category from the factory. If I can get a Z at MSRP, I think it’s worth it. This is the last ICE Z we will have and I want to own one. But if a dealer wants $60k+, forget it - it’s not worth that at all in my opinion. I paid $57k for my 22 3.0 premium with driver assist tech in Jan of this year, and the Z perf needs to come in under that for me to buy… and that doesn’t look likely this year.

I personally think RTs take on the Supra is spot on - I can roast the tires if I tap the throttle suddenly or too fast and I don’t fully trust it yet. Although I never viewed this as a “bug”, but more of a “feature” to let me go HAM if I want to.

End of the day - we all need to get behind the wheel of Z and determine for ourselves.

Yes, i will be waiting for the Z to sell at a reasonable price, im not paying a huge markup on ANY car. Still, i just do not care about a 1-2 second difference on the track, thats close enough for me and many people.

 

[West Aussie]

In Western Australia the fastest I can go on any road is 110 and even then there are very few roads I can do that
There is only one well known track that you can take your car to, and it it’s pretty pricey, not to mention most insurance companies won’t cover you if you crash racing ….those who do will charge you for the luxury.
I just want a car that’s fun to drive…the Z fits that. Track times mean nothing to me, and if we look at the “what kind of driver are you” poll it’s clear that very few intend to track it at all

 

[trackratZ]

End of the day - we all need to get behind the wheel of Z and determine for ourselves.

Yep, we all have our goals for driving the new Z, different camps on this forum which is great!. On my side I'll be hammering it at the limit once I get one, plenty of venues around here and I've been doing it for over a decade, so I'm hooked.

On the other hand, it seems the new Z is compliant enough, and much quieter than the Z34, so those are huge subjective feels to be appreciated on the street. I'm sure we all want predictable handling at any rate, wet, snow? The Z will be a fine cruiser and DD in stock trim, no doubt.

 

[BraveDemon]

@West Aussie. Yeah I get it. And I generally agree with RTs take on the Supra - except for the comment that it’s not fun. But I’m a simple guy and going fast = fun to me.

For most of us on these forums the Z is a conquest purchase. We want it for whatever reason, regardless of reviews.

Hope we all do eventually get one… at reasonable prices.

 

[Loco38SUP]

We’re all here talking about this Nissan Z because its a sweet car with potential.

I say all the hype positive/ negative is good for publicity. If no one was debating it then you should worry and be pissed.

Bottom line we need to drive it for ourselves. Then we will find out if its worth the price paid. That price for me has to be less than what I paid for my Supra not more.

-RJM

 

[BurninateZ]

Bottom line we need to drive it for ourselves. Then we will find out if its worth the price paid. That price for me has to be less than what I paid for my Supra not more.

I don't think anyone would really expect you to part with the Supra so soon. If I had one I'd drive it and enjoy it.

I know the Z and the Supra are "competitors", but really they're both just competing to exist. Drive the heck out of them while you can. If one suits you better, great.

You know we'll all be parking together

 

[bboypuertoroc]

Both the Mk V and the Z4 sound like they wake up and choose violence, every morning.

Much like myself.