Looking for experienced input on purchase of new Z (Performance v NISMO)

[Xylander]

curious how a regular Z with just coils and suspension arms to allow for an real alignment would do vs an unmodfiied nismo (Same tires) around a track

Suspect the regular Z would be faster until the brakes overheated

And I've done exactly that and the brakes overheat within 2 laps at COTA.

 

[HWill]

I'm going to ignore you now, because you don't have a clue about the S550 Mustang, and you certainly don't know the first thing about running a successful SCCA/NHRA professional performance shop for over 20 years.

So, we're at an impasse. Some keyboard warrior who doesn't know the difference between a Torsen and a spring loaded clutched diff is going to lecture me about what I do or don't know and how I don't know how to order parts?

I don't need to justify my purchases. I build race cars for track use. That's literally all I do. It's why I own 2 2024 Nismo Zs. One is a track car being built for SCCA Unlim 1 spec racing, the other is going to be a rolling test mule. I don't need a Sport or a Performance because I am building race cars. I don't need the street stuff, and most of the Nismo kit will be replaced too. It's just economically more in my favor to reuse what I can from the Nismo and build up and out from there.

As to the whole wholesale/retail thing. Let me enlighten you. Back to the S550 Mustang. Retail on the ProCharger stage 2 HO kit on my S550 ranges from between $8,000-$9,000. As a ProCharger authorized dealer and installer, my price direct on the kit is $6,280. That's wholesale price per part. When we were building these in volume (7-10 per week), I was pricing below wholesale with bulk order purchases that brought the per unit price down to the equivalent of $5,300 (specifically, in 2018 the units were around $7,300 retail and I was buying them at around $4,000 a piece). We had similar contracts with Mahle for pistons/rods, Ford Racing for axles, DSS for driveshafts, and so on. Everything was purchased at or below wholesale to maximize shop profit and reduce customer cost. In 2018, for example, provided the customer supplied the donor PP GT, we would deliver them an 800whp car for about $18,000 and included the ProCharger HO stage II kit, pistons/rods, fuel pumps, driveshaft, axles, clutch, K-member and sway bar upgrades. We also had a lesser 700whp package that was literally just the ProCharger kit and a clutch. That kit was $11,000 and could be installed in under 4 hours total time from start to dyno tune. We sold over 200 of the 800whp cars, and close to 400 700whp builds in 2017-2019.

Now, the reason why YOU can't get prices like this is because you're not a business owner that has supplier contracts and scalable pricing based on volume. So, if you try to replicate what we did, your parts cost will be considerably higher. You also don't have to store 50 ProCharger kits, 100 fuel pumps, 50 sets of pistons, and so on in your warehouse. This was a proper racing performance shop... not some general mechanic garage that takes people in off the street in onesies and twosies. Our wait list for builds exceeded 18 months and we planned the builds out the same way an OEM manufacturer does JIT logistics. Parts were ordered and confirmed 60 days before the build was scheduled so that on build day, everything for the build was loaded onto a pallet and readied for install. And, as I said, we were building 7-10 of these per week, every week for almost 4 years straight. This was in addition to our work with McLaren, Porsche, and Audi competition teams.

So, if you think you can build cars cheaper and better than we did... by all means. You should go for it because we did very, very well. But, I'm of the mind that you can't even build 1 unless you give the labor and shipping costs away for free. Me, I employed 48 people during those years and owned 2 racing teams driving 2x C7Rs and 2x GT350Rs.

So please, stop telling me I'm a moron and I don't know anything. Go build a car and show me you can do better... then do it 300 more times on a timed schedule and you'll have my attention. I'll go ahead and ignore you now, and check back in a year to see how it's going.

All I did was show you don't know anything about the S550 Mustang as I corrected you a few times and could have done more.

Instead again you bring your resume up like it makes everything ok. You also add a ton of useless garbage to try to seem smarter than you are or that you have done more than others.

You avoid the main topics and have nothing to say about all of the things you were called out about.

So please ignore me. But if someone calls you out for misinformation then atleast try to back it up with facts and not a "resume"!

 

[trackratZ]

And I've done exactly that and the brakes overheat within 2 laps at COTA.

You have to address the brakes first for ANY tracking of Performance or Sport, crucial before anything else, even the terrible S007s (although those 'stones help you find the lower limits of handling). Reliable brakes lap after lap, no fade, is key to better lap times! Out here in the hot west coast, I know. Great feeling to outbrake others at corners.

 

[OptionZero]

And I've done exactly that and the brakes overheat within 2 laps at COTA.

You have to address the brakes first for ANY tracking of Performance or Sport, crucial before anything else, even the terrible S007s (although those 'stones help you find the lower limits of handling). Reliable brakes lap after lap, no fade, is key to better lap times! Out here in the hot west coast, I know. Great feeling to outbrake others at corners.

yup
It’s like its 2009 again

 

[CPerdomo]

Incase anyone was wondering, Zs and wild deer do not mix very well. Deer were apparently fine after the encounter, but Z’s unfortunately totaled. [insert *sad trombone* sound]

So the silver lining in this development is that I’ll be moving to manual Z when the ‘27s land here in the states. Don’t get me wrong, the NISMO AT (my first auto sports car ever) has been a blast getting to know and drive with paddles, discovered distinct advantages over manual in the process, and have zero complaints about it, but now find myself itching to get back to my roots with an MT while my body can still handle it.

I know the NISMO MT is coming soon, and that’s probably the natural candidate having already had the NISMO AT, but starting to wonder if maybe going with a ’27 Performance MT might actually be a better option for me considering how I actually drive/don’t drive. The main reason I’m thinking this is I don’t ever do any track driving, and never will either. Daily driving; Nah, good weather weekends only. Spirited driving out in the country twisties; Absolutely, it’s therapy. Long roadtrips with gal; Yep, we love ‘em.

When I went to purchase a new Z back in ’24 I was able to test drive both the Performance and the NISMO back-to back and was shocked how much better the NISMO handled overall. That’s what ultimately made me decide NISMO over Performance. The out-of-the-box aesthetics of the NISMO were also a draw as it needs nothing other than tasteful lowering and wheel/fender flushing to look perfect IMO. Was brand new to the Z platform at the time of purchase, so was clueless on what mods made big differences in performance and handling, which ones are waste of time/money, who all the players are in the aftermarket world, etc. Since then, partially with the help of this forum (thank you), I’ve been learning a bit as I’ve gone along watching other owners do all kinds of different builds with their Zs. Bone stock my NISMO was good, but wound up doing heat exchanger, intakes, lower downpipes, full exhaust kit, lowering springs and a tune on my NISMO AT and all that had it bumped up and dialed in perfect for me, albeit a little bit rough on bumpy roads, which it was when stock too. Would love for it to be just a little more plush riding while still able to handle well during spirited non-track drives.

Anyway, that all brings me to the reason for this post, which is I’m looking for opinions and advice from others here who are more knowledgable than I am in this area and who may have juggled this same sorta decision before. From what I’ve gathered so far is plenty seem to have minimized or even closed the performance/handling gap between Performance and NISMO models with certain mods. Is my observation correct on that? If so, what exactly are all the key mods in achieving NISMO-like performance/handling on a Performance model, AND that are particularly relevant to someone like me who does not track, but does do very spirited driving? Or does the cost delta of achieving this goal start becoming a wash when comparing the cost of building up a Performance to the level described here to the near-turnkey cost of a NISMO? Lastly, am I by chance missing anything else in all this that should also be considered?

Thanks in advance for any insight offered on this. Cheers.

I bought a Performance first. I am a die hard MT guy. My 2016 Pro4X truck is a 6spd manual. But then, a chance to consider the Nismo came up. I test drove it and, tbh, was not that impressed. Since the dealer gave me a great offer, I took it. I knew I was getting the "Crème de la crème"... the top gun model... so I exchanged them. At the beginning, it took a while for me to "learn" the behavior of the AT. In normal mode it's nothing but ordinary. But once I learned the other modes and combined them with peddles/shifter attitude, oh boy. I tracked the car once. I would do it every weekend if I could afford it. That way I wouldn't risk a ticket or an accident.
IMO, the Nismo shouldn't be modified. It's perfect as it is. Unless you would do some serious tracking as some of our fellow members here do. But for people like you and me, the Nismo is perfect. I would wait to test drive the MT Nismo. If not, there are plenty of used Nismos out there with fewer miles at a bargain.
I truly loved my Performance model... until I got the Nismo. No way I would go back...

 

[CPerdomo]

The only way you get that same performance for less is by lying to yourself.

there's a lot of that going on here...

 

[CPerdomo]

I'm going to ignore you now, because you don't have a clue about the S550 Mustang, and you certainly don't know the first thing about running a successful SCCA/NHRA professional performance shop for over 20 years.

So, we're at an impasse. Some keyboard warrior who doesn't know the difference between a Torsen and a spring loaded clutched diff is going to lecture me about what I do or don't know and how I don't know how to order parts?

I don't need to justify my purchases. I build race cars for track use. That's literally all I do. It's why I own 2 2024 Nismo Zs. One is a track car being built for SCCA Unlim 1 spec racing, the other is going to be a rolling test mule. I don't need a Sport or a Performance because I am building race cars. I don't need the street stuff, and most of the Nismo kit will be replaced too. It's just economically more in my favor to reuse what I can from the Nismo and build up and out from there.

As to the whole wholesale/retail thing. Let me enlighten you. Back to the S550 Mustang. Retail on the ProCharger stage 2 HO kit on my S550 ranges from between $8,000-$9,000. As a ProCharger authorized dealer and installer, my price direct on the kit is $6,280. That's wholesale price per part. When we were building these in volume (7-10 per week), I was pricing below wholesale with bulk order purchases that brought the per unit price down to the equivalent of $5,300 (specifically, in 2018 the units were around $7,300 retail and I was buying them at around $4,000 a piece). We had similar contracts with Mahle for pistons/rods, Ford Racing for axles, DSS for driveshafts, and so on. Everything was purchased at or below wholesale to maximize shop profit and reduce customer cost. In 2018, for example, provided the customer supplied the donor PP GT, we would deliver them an 800whp car for about $18,000 and included the ProCharger HO stage II kit, pistons/rods, fuel pumps, driveshaft, axles, clutch, K-member and sway bar upgrades. We also had a lesser 700whp package that was literally just the ProCharger kit and a clutch. That kit was $11,000 and could be installed in under 4 hours total time from start to dyno tune. We sold over 200 of the 800whp cars, and close to 400 700whp builds in 2017-2019.

Now, the reason why YOU can't get prices like this is because you're not a business owner that has supplier contracts and scalable pricing based on volume. So, if you try to replicate what we did, your parts cost will be considerably higher. You also don't have to store 50 ProCharger kits, 100 fuel pumps, 50 sets of pistons, and so on in your warehouse. This was a proper racing performance shop... not some general mechanic garage that takes people in off the street in onesies and twosies. Our wait list for builds exceeded 18 months and we planned the builds out the same way an OEM manufacturer does JIT logistics. Parts were ordered and confirmed 60 days before the build was scheduled so that on build day, everything for the build was loaded onto a pallet and readied for install. And, as I said, we were building 7-10 of these per week, every week for almost 4 years straight. This was in addition to our work with McLaren, Porsche, and Audi competition teams.

So, if you think you can build cars cheaper and better than we did... by all means. You should go for it because we did very, very well. But, I'm of the mind that you can't even build 1 unless you give the labor and shipping costs away for free. Me, I employed 48 people during those years and owned 2 racing teams driving 2x C7Rs and 2x GT350Rs.

So please, stop telling me I'm a moron and I don't know anything. Go build a car and show me you can do better... then do it 300 more times on a timed schedule and you'll have my attention. I'll go ahead and ignore you now, and check back in a year to see how it's going.

What a spanking...
I don't even think he got it though...

 

[HWill]

What a spanking...
I don't even think he got it though...

What is there to get?

I'm not the only one that disagreed with the comparison he made. And a lot of what he said about the Mustang is laughable. IMO EVERYTHING he has stated seems very questionable!

I liked your post above because you said it is perfect for you. You were not trying to justify it or compare it to other cars. But you said yourself it didn't impress for a so-called " Crème de la crème"!

There are other threads about the Sport/Performance VS a Nismo

So I see he impressed you even more than the Nismo did. HA
And that tells me a lot about you.
You don't need to know anything about another car but you can clearly see, or maybe you can't, that he avoided everything I brought up. Re-direction is used by those that are full of it.

 

[CPerdomo]

What is there to get?

I'm not the only one that disagreed with the comparison he made. And a lot of what he said about the Mustang is laughable. IMO EVERYTHING he has stated seems very questionable!

I liked your post above because you said it is perfect for you. You were not trying to justify it or compare it to other cars. But you said yourself it didn't impress for a so-called " Crème de la crème"!

There are other threads about the Sport/Performance VS a Nismo

So I see he impressed you even more than the Nismo did. HA
And that tells me a lot about you.
You don't need to know anything about another car but you can clearly see, or maybe you can't, that he avoided everything I brought up. Re-direction is used by those that are full of it.

Do you build race cars?

 

[HuskeRZ34]

 

[BigBlue]

I'm going to side with @FSUZ33 on this one, and not just because we live in the same city. Ultimately it's your choice... but I'll toss some logic your way that may help.

First, recognize that yes... the Nismo is a track rat's wet dream come true. There's always room for improvement (in this case, TIRES... DUNLOPS SUCCCCCK), but the base Nismo is at home on the track straight out of the box. If you're never going to do that... eh. Kinda sounds like ordering a banana split without any bananas... but whatever

Yes, a Performance CAN be modified to meet or exceed the Nismo. Two big reasons why this is usually a negative though:

1. Butt dyno is rarely an accurate indicator of performance. I've met lots of people who spent $600 on a CAI and got 10 negative horsepower due to MAF sensor readings changes who swore they picked up 40hp. Monkeying with suspension components produces equal beliefs. It's more rigid, must mean it handles better. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. The truth is, most people don't really know and never push the car to the point to find out. So, take claims like these with much skepticism. I'm not claiming anyone here is this way, but I've been in the car game a long time. If I had a dollar for every Mustang GT owner that said XYZ mods = faster than a GT500, I'd own 4 solid gold toilets. Every fandom has this same story. Lower trim can be faster than the higher trim. In theory, that's actually true. It's just usually not cheaper unless corners are cut and compromises are made. Oh, and note how these folks never factor in the 80 hours of self labor you have to put in to make the numbers semi look favorable.
2. The Nismo has a warranty. If you mod out a Performance to the Nismo or NIsmo+ standard, your warranty = void.

You know what the Nismo rides like. The Performance will feel like riding in a cloud. Thus, there is one very important test you should do to help you make your decision:

Get out on the road, let 'er rip to 60. SMASH THE BRAKE. You either think it's OK, or you throw up a little in your mouth and want out of the car. If you think it's OK, buy the Performance because if you can put up with that, you don't really need what the Nismo offers. That's my advice anyway

Well written Sir.

 

[HWill]

Do you build race cars?

So, bragging about builds is what makes you think someone is creditable, cause that's all he did!
If you ever built a car yourself, you would know that a lot that he said made no sense.

But yes, I have done exactly what he says is not possible to do more than once. There are a lot of vehicles you can buy the base model and make it just as good if not better than the higher end models. Just making it just as good for most of the people's abilities is not hard.

Like I said over and over the Nismo is not a bad car, I would probably have got one if it was a manual. You guys with them don't need to justify your purchase to anyone.

If someone can make a better Sport/Performance over a Nismo for the same price or cheaper doesn't cheapen the Nismo or make you look foolish in no way.

Even cars like the Nismo feel like they need work to make them just right for some, for me it definitely did. Just like the Performance Z does.

One thing I will not argue about is the warranty. To some that is everything and I can understand that. But modifying a car doesn't necessarily void the warranty, that all depends on the dealership mostly. But it is a good reason, just like saying the Nismo is all you want in a Z and more.

I will say just because someone can't do something themselves doesn't mean others can't.

 

[CPerdomo]

So, bragging about builds is what makes you think someone is creditable, cause that's all he did!
If you ever built a car yourself, you would know that a lot that he said made no sense.

But yes, I have done exactly what he says is not possible to do more than once. There are a lot of vehicles you can buy the base model and make it just as good if not better than the higher end models. Just making it just as good for most of the people's abilities is not hard.

Like I said over and over the Nismo is not a bad car, I would probably have got one if it was a manual. You guys with them don't need to justify your purchase to anyone.

If someone can make a better Sport/Performance over a Nismo for the same price or cheaper doesn't cheapen the Nismo or make you look foolish in no way.

Even cars like the Nismo feel like they need work to make them just right for some, for me it definitely did. Just like the Performance Z does.

One thing I will not argue about is the warranty. To some that is everything and I can understand that. But modifying a car doesn't necessarily void the warranty, that all depends on the dealership mostly. But it is a good reason, just like saying the Nismo is all you want in a Z and more.

I will say just because someone can't do something themselves doesn't mean others can't.

HWill, You said about me that "So I see he impressed you even more than the Nismo did"...
I'm in the middle of this, as most of us are. But I have an acute analysis gift paired with common sense. It's served me very well for decades in management. I've done very small modifications to some of my cars during my driving years. But nothing like some of you guys have done here.
So, most of us are only reading what both sides say. Not taking sides... at least in my case. Just analyzing what both sides are writing. And by the way... I agree with you about the Nismo situation.

 

[Xylander]

I've said pretty much all that needs to be said on this I think. I'll just point out again, that the main issue with the Nismo vs. the other trims is that when someone says they can build a Performance to meet or exceed the Nismo, and they stop at that statement, it becomes purely anecdotal.

Hence why I say, "You say you can build it to do X... and it does. HOW do you know though?" It's been my experience that with most solo or small shop builders, nobody actually knows outside of anecdotal seat of the pants feel... which isn't accurate. "Oh I read online that this part reduces that, and that part increases this." Great. But DOES it actually do that? Buying into part brand marketing is all a person is doing in such a situation. Even if the car runs faster times than before... is the car operating optimally or not? If you don't know the math and physics reasons for a part and how much they move the performance needle or how much they should, then you don't really know and you're throwing parts and money whilst chasing dreams.

 

[HWill]

I've said pretty much all that needs to be said on this I think. I'll just point out again, that the main issue with the Nismo vs. the other trims is that when someone says they can build a Performance to meet or exceed the Nismo, and they stop at that statement, it becomes purely anecdotal.

Hence why I say, "You say you can build it to do X... and it does. HOW do you know though?" It's been my experience that with most solo or small shop builders, nobody actually knows outside of anecdotal seat of the pants feel... which isn't accurate. "Oh I read online that this part reduces that, and that part increases this." Great. But DOES it actually do that? Buying into part brand marketing is all a person is doing in such a situation. Even if the car runs faster times than before... is the car operating optimally or not? If you don't know the math and physics reasons for a part and how much they move the performance needle or how much they should, then you don't really know and you're throwing parts and money whilst chasing dreams.

Generic blueprint

MSRP on the 2026 Sport Z is $44265
MSRP on the 2026 Nismo Z is $67045
Difference of $22,700

I'm even going to round everything up and not just look for the cheapest parts.

Nissan LSD $2300 for full assembly
Nismo Brakes $2000
Nismo Coilovers $1700
Nismo SwayBars $450
Z1 Bracing $1100
Tires $1700
Nismo Wheels $2800
AMS Intake $600
Nismo CatBack $2100
$1200 Tune


So far that is $15950

We still have $6750 left!

Let's use the rest for some misc.

You can definitely save a lot with some different parts and shopping around, so there is no way you can't build a just as good or better Z for the price.

What is not "Factual" about anything here?

You don't need to over think it and making it so complicated.

Like I said just because "YOU" can't do something doesn't mean no one else can.

And no parts that a person with basic knowledge and the ability can't install.