Hands Up all the Aussies

[cainen]

stupidly overpriced for ther Proto ($8,000 for painted calipers, yellow fabric bits on the seat and different coloured wheels - change my mind!).

Can't argue with that, although it's going to be the more desirable/valuable one in however many years time.

 

[Tdog87]

So like many of you I also got a call from my dealer today which is the same dealer as jezzza and I am fairly sure the same salesperson.

Anyway it was more of an update saying that pricing had been released and more information will follow in the near future.

I was given an indicative price of $87k for my Proto order which seems slightly cheaper than what is on the Nissan website. I didn't push to clarify yet as no point when I am still not sure about what I am doing with my order.

He did give me some information that I don't think we have heard/been given before and that is a maximum of 3 Proto's would be made available to any dealer so if the dealer has more than 3 orders for one than you are out of luck. Not really all that surprising as there are what about 80-90 dealers across the country.

I am pretty sure I was the first person to put and order for a Proto at my dealer so he said I shouldn't have any issues with my order.

Hey Sam, same-I think this car should be a classic so I’m planning on keeping for a long time

Agreed, this should be a future classic.

I think some of the more active members of this thread will probably sense a theme with a lot of my posts as they generally have a more pessimistic outlook on things lol.

However I think it is more my engineering background that makes me look at things this way and try to look at things a bit more logical.

What do you guys define as a future classic? Is it a car that will be collectable and go up in value because I have my reservations about that.

While limited edition versions like the Proto and possibly the Nismo version have a chance of being collectable and going up in value I don't think the normal version will.

For it to be a classic and be collectable there would have to be future demand for it and I don't think future demand for this car will be that great as it is not special enough.

Look at the current market for enthusiast consumers like us looking for a performance sports car there isn't a huge amount of choice as the market has now been dominated by SUV's and soon EV's and this is where the vast majority of buyers of cars are looking.

We as enthusiasts are becoming a smaller and smaller group and we won't exactly be gaining numbers in future generations as cars move more towards EV's etc, the next generation will most likely be a lot less interested and not view cars in the same way that we do.

The vast majority of enthusiasts looking at cars like these are probably in there late 20's early 30's and above in age and most likely could afford the car now and buy it if they really want one or potentially in the near future.

The car is also only now going into production and given how long the previous models were in production for the Z in it's current form would probably go for at least 5 years and could possibly even go til the end of the decade to 2030. So even if you look at the next generation or drivers they still might be able this car new or near new in 5-10 years time.

Definitely by that stage EV's would have a much bigger presence in the market and demand from consumers for this car would be lower and if the production does go that long in 10 years like I said above you potentially could buy a relatively new Z so I don't think prices/demand would go up for it.

 

[West Aussie]

Personally i don’t care…I love it, and like others plan to keep it for a loooong time

I disagree with some of your points, if there is going to be up to 3 protos per dealer then it’s looking like 240 will be delivered here. I don‘t think that is really that limited, as there are probably 1000 if not more across the world …my Peugeot was more limited and it’s value didn’t go up, there was only around 260 left world wide when I sold mine.
in fact if you look at it logically…240 Protos , but Nissan only expecting around 1000 cars total, some of the other coloured will be rarer …at least to start with in Australia

I think any car has the potential to be a classic, even those made on mass there are a number of examples of this…but that is not why you should buy a car.
You should buy it because you love it, and want to drive it…because it makes you happy …and that’s why I’ll be buying mine

 

[Tdog87]

I disagree with some of your points, if there is going to be up to 3 protos per dealer then it’s looking like 240 will be delivered here. I don‘t think that is really that limited, as there are probably 1000 if not more across the world …my Peugeot was more limited and it’s value didn’t go up, there was only around 260 left world wide when I sold mine.

I didn't say the Proto will go up in value I said it has a chance to go up. I agree that being limited is not enough to make a car go up in value or be a classic, you could make a limited amount of anything that doesn't mean much or make it special.

I think any car has the potential to be a classic, even those made on mass there are a number of examples of this…but that is not why you should buy a car.
You should buy it because you love it, and want to drive it…because it makes you happy …and that’s why I’ll be buying mine

In my opinion mass produced classic cars like the Beetle or Mini were hero cars as they were relatively cheap and appealed to the masses and that is how cars like these achieved classic/hero status.

The Z is more niche and although their is a very strong Z following it is relatively small so not sure it would widely be accepted as a classic outside of this community.

I agree that you shouldn't let these factors affect you decision when buying a car, you should buy what you want and buy it because you enjoy it, but there will be those that will look at this as an investment and buy it in the hopes it will hold or go up in value.

 

[GeelongCats]

@Tdog87 that’s exactly right, you make so much sense appreciate your input
Nissan does have a tendency to hype up the market and scalp the initial buyers and then heavily discount the models, hoping this is not the case here. Although Z is nicely priced in the market compared to its segment, this is definitely not a car that’s worth over 80k based on the carryover/leftover materials they’ve used. With rates rise and inflation hitting hard, it’s already a stretch as we were expecting 370 nismo level pricing on performance variant and 5-7k more for proto.
If and when they come to their senses and discount the price to nismo level in 1-2 years time?
As you’ve mentioned all the points above, it all makes sense this is a hard sell but again none of these factors should matter if you are buying it for yourself.

 

[Sam_AusZ32]

@Tdog87 - chin up, mate

Like West Aussie above, I'm buying this Z because I love it and will be keeping it for a long time, if not it's whole lifetime- irrespective of how the market waxes and wanes.


To explore the idea of 'future value' you need to put aside your engineering/logic brain lol.
Demand for a vehicle isn't necessarily based on tangible qualities. I'd suggest that future buyers of this Z will be heavily influenced by nostalgia; the emotion that it invokes.

Let's go back to the Nissan's of the 90's- look at the current value of Silvia's, Skylines, Z's... The hero cars of my generation.
I'd bet that most of us grown adults are here for the new Z because there was a time when one of these cars caught our eye and captured our imagination.
There are people out there today paying upwards of $30k for rusted out, non-turbo Silvia's. Nuts, yeah.

Our Z, the Supra, the Civic, the WRX, the BRZ/86, the GR Yaris- I reckon they'll be the hero cars of this current generation too.

 

[indio22]

So like many of you I also got a call from my dealer today which is the same dealer as jezzza and I am fairly sure the same salesperson.

Anyway it was more of an update saying that pricing had been released and more information will follow in the near future.

I was given an indicative price of $87k for my Proto order which seems slightly cheaper than what is on the Nissan website. I didn't push to clarify yet as no point when I am still not sure about what I am doing with my order.

He did give me some information that I don't think we have heard/been given before and that is a maximum of 3 Proto's would be made available to any dealer so if the dealer has more than 3 orders for one than you are out of luck. Not really all that surprising as there are what about 80-90 dealers across the country.

I am pretty sure I was the first person to put and order for a Proto at my dealer so he said I shouldn't have any issues with my order.



I think some of the more active members of this thread will probably sense a theme with a lot of my posts as they generally have a more pessimistic outlook on things lol.

However I think it is more my engineering background that makes me look at things this way and try to look at things a bit more logical.

What do you guys define as a future classic? Is it a car that will be collectable and go up in value because I have my reservations about that.

While limited edition versions like the Proto and possibly the Nismo version have a chance of being collectable and going up in value I don't think the normal version will.

For it to be a classic and be collectable there would have to be future demand for it and I don't think future demand for this car will be that great as it is not special enough.

Look at the current market for enthusiast consumers like us looking for a performance sports car there isn't a huge amount of choice as the market has now been dominated by SUV's and soon EV's and this is where the vast majority of buyers of cars are looking.

We as enthusiasts are becoming a smaller and smaller group and we won't exactly be gaining numbers in future generations as cars move more towards EV's etc, the next generation will most likely be a lot less interested and not view cars in the same way that we do.

The vast majority of enthusiasts looking at cars like these are probably in there late 20's early 30's and above in age and most likely could afford the car now and buy it if they really want one or potentially in the near future.

The car is also only now going into production and given how long the previous models were in production for the Z in it's current form would probably go for at least 5 years and could possibly even go til the end of the decade to 2030. So even if you look at the next generation or drivers they still might be able this car new or near new in 5-10 years time.

Definitely by that stage EV's would have a much bigger presence in the market and demand from consumers for this car would be lower and if the production does go that long in 10 years like I said above you potentially could buy a relatively new Z so I don't think prices/demand would go up for it.

I bought my 1972 Series III 88 Land Rover (North American left-hand drive) for $6000 USD in 1997. Today Hagerty valuation is showing "good condition" around $30,000 USD. So sometimes you can hit on a vehicle that will hold some value or even appreciate. But in general, I would not look to a vehicle as an investment. In fact my Rover is no longer in good condition and needs a lot of work.

The wild card right now with future vehicle values, is the paradigm shift of electric. While in the future some enthusiast folks will still want the petrol burning, shifting and noise experiences ... I bet a lot of other people will not. They will be happy to race around in a powerful selection of electrics, once it becomes more of a norm.

The future valuation of a Nissan Z, will depend on enthusiast demand making up for lost demand due to electrics. It's a dicey proposition given changes on the horizon.

 

[West Aussie]

Can't argue with that, although it's going to be the more desirable/valuable one in however many years time.

What gets me about the Proto is like you’ve said…very minimal changes for a large price increase.
If I so wished I could get a yellow coupe and get a red interior….how many will go with that combination? Maybe less than those who go for the proto, its would still be original, still first year out, so could be more exclusive.

I think they made a big mistake making the yellow available in the normal coupe…but i for one am happy, because it’s what I’ll get (black interior) if I decide I want to spray the callipers …it’s a couple hundred bucks, if I want some new rims…couple thousand. So really your paying for the stitching, that’s it . And as I said, maybe yellow with red interior might turn out to be more rare…not that that’s my jam

So I do agree that the Proto seems a tad over valued. But again, after the past few years I think we all deserve to spoil ourselves a little and be happy (if you can afford to do so) sure it’s an expensive way to put a smile on my face, but it will last longer than chocolate

 

[Ballast Scorcher]

I'm hearing the comments regarding the Proto, but how's this; it's no one's job here to sell the damn thing or change another's mind or opinion on the matter. Similar to my opinion on the tyre kickers opting out of reservations, im getting pretty over reading the same opinions having a crack at the proto. If you don't like it, that's fine, move along. No point flogging the horse, it ain't moving.

To each their own.

 

[West Aussie]

I'm hearing the comments regarding the Proto, but how's this; it's no one's job here to sell the damn thing or change another's mind or opinion on the matter. Similar to my opinion on the tyre kickers opting out of reservations, im getting pretty over reading the same opinions having a crack at the proto. If you don't like it, that's fine, move along. No point flogging the horse, it ain't moving.

To each their own.

Just as I said in all my remarks…if it makes you happy that’s the most important thing and you should buy it…no one’s trying to change anyones mind
EDIT to “ your“ mind

 

[Ballast Scorcher]

($8,000 for painted calipers, yellow fabric bits on the seat and different coloured wheels - change my mind!).

 

[cainen]

My dealer reckons they've only had one cancellation from over 50 preorders after pricing was released. Doubt it.

 

[West Aussie]

My dealer reckons they've only had one cancellation from over 50 preorders after pricing was released. Doubt it.

Mine doesn’t seem worried. What we have to understand is that the people not happy with pricing are making their voices heard (no problem with that) for every one of those people there will be ten that keep their order…don’t think Nissans worried
of course I could be wrong, but given what else is on offer and the prices of second hand vehicles, I don’t think they will have a problem selling their first allocation at least

 

[peter]

That sounds about right!

Emailed my guy today and asked if they were in a position to see if anyone with a pre order would get a car, he replied that they still do not know and that it was dependant on the overall allocation of cars.

 

[irishboy77]

What gets me about the Proto is like you’ve said…very minimal changes for a large price increase.
If I so wished I could get a yellow coupe and get a red interior….how many will go with that combination? Maybe less than those who go for the proto, its would still be original, still first year out, so could be more exclusive.

I think they made a big mistake making the yellow available in the normal coupe…but i for one am happy, because it’s what I’ll get (black interior) if I decide I want to spray the callipers …it’s a couple hundred bucks, if I want some new rims…couple thousand. So really your paying for the stitching, that’s it . And as I said, maybe yellow with red interior might turn out to be more rare…not that that’s my jam

So I do agree that the Proto seems a tad over valued. But again, after the past few years I think we all deserve to spoil ourselves a little and be happy (if you can afford to do so) sure it’s an expensive way to put a smile on my face, but it will last longer than chocolate

yep I thought the yellow was a proto only colour hence my confusion that it was available. I think they might limit that colour to the first year perhaps instead.