(Hagerty) How fast is the new $50k Nissan Z? — New Z vs Supra vs Mustang Mach-1

[siggy]

Even though the Z likely uses very little Chinese content, the entire industry is hamstrung by shipping resources being stuck in Chinese waters.

What makes you say this? I know of no single major (profitable) company that doesn’t rely on China to some significant degree.

 

[takemorepills]

What makes you say this? I know of no single major (profitable) company that doesn’t rely on China to some significant degree.

What does it matter? My point is that the China "zero-COVID" lockdowns have log-jammed resources for the entire world. The dump in Everett has to curtail operations because they can't get enough cargo containers to send off the trash. Because container ships are stuck at anchor.

And, as for how much Chinese content a Z would have, I can only go by where the parts in my Q60 and my wife's 2020 Toyota Corolla for reference. Surprisingly very little. Some of the audio system in my Q60 is from China, that's about it. Almost every part on my wife's Japan VIN Toyota is Japanese, accessories are USA, and audio system is Malaysia.

Doesn't matter when a signifigant number of the world's cargo ships are stuck at anchor in China. They can't go from Malaysia to Japan, et al. until they can complete their China passage.

 

[DevonK]

To be honest I don’t know why people are still here on the forum if they don’t like the car or the price, why bother to stay and bag something, it’s not going to change the price, it’s not going to change the car….you either like it and want one or you don’t

Just to be clear, I am not bagging the car, just making the point that there are differences in how the car's behaviour at the limit is being described which can only be fully clarified by more objective testing methods. But I think the best we can hope for is that a less confused picture will emerge when we get experienced race hands like Randy Pobst weighing in.

 

[LZ23]

It's always been about being an affordable RWD sports car that everyone can enjoy. It's no longer that, unless people think a $40-50k (let's be real, that's more like $50-60k) car is affordable for everyone.

The Z car was never an afffordable sports car.I remember looking at a new in 1990 300ZX and it was 53,000 dollars in Canada.When I bought my 2003 350Z Performance in Nov. 2002 it was 44,500 MSRP.That 1990 Z car in todays dollars with inflation would work out to 72,000 US dollars.If I remember right it had a MSRP of 33,000 .So the new Z still represents very good value for the dollar.

 

[West Aussie]

Just to be clear, I am not bagging the car, just making the point that there are differences in how the car's behaviour at the limit is being described which can only be fully clarified by more objective testing methods. But I think the best we can hope for is that a less confused picture will emerge when we get experienced race hands like Randy Pobst weighing in.

I didn’t mean specifically you…I meant there are a lot of comments just lately bagging the car, and it always comes down to the same statement. “It’s not worth the money”
I’ve said it before….I’ll say it again.
The worth of anything is judged by if that thing sells. An art work, a collectors item could be worth millions, but in reality it’s only worth what people will pay.
As around 75%-80% on the forum have stated they will still buy the car, it’s obviously worth the price to them.

I think everyone would prefer it to be cheaper but that is the same with anything in life, and we are not living in the 80s…what do i mean by that? In Aus some were shocked that the cars entry is 73k…however when the 370z was first released in Aus 13 years ago it cost 69k.
So a 4K increase over. 13 years to me, considering inflation, is a pretty good outcome.
I know someone showed the price of the 370z on launch in US dollars somewhere and put it in the inflation calculator for the Z, the cost was pretty much spot on.

People read pre reviews, they took the presses ( who had absolutely no idea) guesstimates as law, and now the true price has been revealed they are angry, but that doesn’t diminish the product

That’s my point

 

[Denver the Last Dinosaur]

The Z car was never an afffordable sports car.

Yep. The Z has always been the higher-end of the mid-range.

In the 1990s Nissan's "affordable sports car" was the NX1 (although it wasn't very good). The next tier up was the 180sx / 200sx, then the Z, and then higher again was the GTR ... although the tiers did blur a little.

Today the Z is Nissan's "cheapest" sports car (the GTR is the only other one to still exist), but there are certainly cheaper sports cars from other manufacturers ... the Toyota 86 and Subaru BRZ for a start, probably the Mazda MX-5/Miata as well.

 

[LeatherWings]

I didn’t mean specifically you…I meant there are a lot of comments just lately bagging the car, and it always comes down to the same statement. “It’s not worth the money”
I’ve said it before….I’ll say it again.
The worth of anything is judged by if that thing sells. An art work, a collectors item could be worth millions, but in reality it’s only worth what people will pay.
As around 75%-80% on the forum have stated they will still buy the car, it’s obviously worth the price to them.

Person A says it's NOT worth the money
Person B says it IS worth the money

Who is right? Depends on whether you are Person A or Person B.

 

[Denver the Last Dinosaur]

^ Well, you're probably Person C, so you'll have to make up your own mind.

Nissan says it is worth $X, but American dealers say it's worth $Y (for Y > X). Who's right? Nissan of course - the car dealers are just being greedy.

 

[West Aussie]

Person A says it's NOT worth the money
Person B says it IS worth the money

Who is right? Depends on whether you are Person A or Person B.

Exactly my point….anything no matter car, art, collector item, is only worth what people will pay.
If people buy it than it’s worth it to them, and if enough still buy ( as appears to be the case) it’s still with it to the manufacturer too!

 

[fliplover]

There is more to the dispute here than solely personal preferences. Savagegeese loved the GR86 so much they bought one, they aren't biased against it any more than Camissa. They do have a fundamental disagreement with Camissa about the Z's driving characteristics - how it behaves under certain conditions.

Camissa describes the car as having no steering feedback up to the point of snap oversteer when the traction limit is exceeded, with a spin nearly inevitable as a result; Savagegeese described the car as providing the feedback needed to anticipate oncoming oversteer and then modulate it effectively as it comes on more gradually. Hands up - who is going to "prefer" the car with the characteristics Jason describes?

GIven identical conditions, both of these descriptions can't be accurate. A pro racing team would have the monitoring equipment needed (steering force and angle sensors, G-force meter, etc.) to objectively determine which is the more accurate account, and to compare the car in this respect to others like the Supra.

While I agree more testing is needed, I personally doubt Tamura san would allow this car to go to market with the driving characteristics Camissa is describing.

 

[DevonK]

While I agree more testing is needed, I personally doubt Tamura san would allow this car to go to market with the driving characteristics Camissa is describing.

Sure hope you are right, I do not want a car with the latter!

 

[indio22]

You would hope not, but it's probable there's a couple, even if they're not the regular posters.

I can also see some selfish idiots out there pre-ordering and buying them simply to scalp it on eBay or wherever at an even higher price due to the initial difficulty in getting one.

Hopefully Z doesn't go south like the Ford Bronco scene. A bunch of image buyers, not even having a real use for the key vehicle functionalities. People buying hopped up, skid plated, diff lock, sway bar disconnect vehicles ... for their weekly pavement trips to the grocery store, lol.

And yeah, buying to flip, or buying three or more for the family. Imagine you wanting one Z ... but some connected big spending dude has already bought 3 ... for himself, his wife and their daughter's high school graduation. Not kidding, that's what's been going on.

Hopefully Z doesn't become like that Bronco scene, where people are patting themselves on the back, for having "only" paid 5k over MSRP.

My only consolation is, I won't see many of those folks, when out on the trails in my Jeep. They'll be hanging at the Costco parking lot or something, lol.

 

[TiresAlwaysFlat]

Seriously is anyone going to be driving the Z 10/10 of its limits on public roads(I hope not)? I'm sure those that will be tracking and pushing this car to its limits will figure a way around these sort of problems.. either tuning, aero, tires, etc..

 

[bboypuertoroc]

The Z car was never an afffordable sports car.I remember looking at a new in 1990 300ZX and it was 53,000 dollars in Canada.When I bought my 2003 350Z Performance in Nov. 2002 it was 44,500 MSRP.That 1990 Z car in todays dollars with inflation would work out to 72,000 US dollars.If I remember right it had a MSRP of 33,000 .So the new Z still represents very good value for the dollar.

Don't take my word for it...

The original 240Z was built to bring the joy and excitement of sports car ownership to as many people as possible – a car built for enthusiasts, by enthusiasts. That spirit and heritage continues today with the launch of the latest reincarnation of Z.

When the 350Z launched you could get it in for under $30k (bought mine for $27K-ish IIRC). When the 370Z went out you could still get in it for $30k. To get some of the (necessary) performance goodies you could get into a better model for only a couple thou more. THAT is good value for your dollar and is affordable for your average sports car enthusiast and in line with their own vision dating back to the 240Z.

I've said a bunch of times now that I was never expecting this car to be THAT cheap, but still expected it to be affordable for your average sports car enthusiast. $60k for this car isn't good value for the dollar lol.

I don't care what people want to spend on this car. It's your money and you're gonna do you. I love this car but I don't love it for what it's gonna cost to drive it home.

 

[bboypuertoroc]

Hopefully Z doesn't go south like the Ford Bronco scene. A bunch of image buyers...

For $55-60k+ that's EXACTLY what's gonna happen.