2027 Manual Nismo-Motortrend

[JWG]

Speaking of ugly, the MK5 Supra is a design lesson in what not to do. It’s a mess from a design perspective. From a driving perspective, it’s fast and numb (like most modern BMWs) and when pushed the rear wants to swap ends with you without letting you know that it’s about to do it. The sight lines are terrible and you feel like you’re driving in a coffin. If this all appeals to you, by all means get one. You can be another BMW fanboy (which it sounds like you already are).

I'm an S58/ZF8 fanboy, and I loved the E46 chassis. The new BMWs to me are engines and transmissions, and the rest of it I could leave.

 

[FatRatZ]

I would really like to drive one, but there of course aren't any available for that, yet. Just regular Z's which noone likes who has driven both. I'd love to try the manual Nismo, but I think it will be a while before I can snag a test drive in one. I did drive a CTR FL5 this morning, and the thing was absolutely phenomenal, even if it is down on power compared to most cars I've owned.

Okay, but we have the Supra, and noone is complaining.

The 0-30 was only off the 4.1 pace of the Supra by 0.1 second...it wasn't tires. Also, the trap speed delta was almost 6mph. Again...it's not the tires. The only viable 2 explanations are 1, Nissan really murdered the car with their "manual specific ECU tune" -OR- MT or the delivery crew filled it up with the most rotten 87 octane they could find. I am curious if C&D gets vastly different numbers.

I find this hilarious. Everyone cries foul when their baby gets called ugly. No basis to it what-so-ever in this case, IMO.

Yes, I agree most people cry foul when it’s something they own that’s been criticized. Normal human response. I find that for many people, the current car they own is often the best car they’ve owned - and most people haven’t owned too many, given the average age of a car on the road these days is about 12 1/2 years. So they’re experience with different cars become somewhat limited as a result. And they consequently fight to the nail to prove what they own is the best. Fair enough.

For reference I’ve owned everything from Porsche’s to Ferrari’s to Volkswagen and Hondas - over 150 vehicles. Including two 2024 Zs - boulder gray performance and a heritage. I try to remain open minded. The reason I keep the Z is because I enjoy it, love the look, and think it’s a good value. No, it’s not the best sports car, it’s not the best commuter car, and it’s not the fastest. But it is a grin fest.
For non-biased opinion, it’s very good at what it does at a reasonable price. I don’t get attached to any vehicle and recognize many manufacturers do some things better and some do things not as well.

People don’t always cry foul just to protect what they currently own. Sometimes we cry foul when, in our vast experience, we don’t think the opinion is warranted or appropriate for the intended audience. Measuring the Z against criteria that no one really uses it for in real life doesn’t seem quite fair - but that’s what the enthusiast magazines do and I’m OK with it - only to get an idea of what the performance capabilities are when in a track condition. Using track data for comparison of capabilities between manufacturers is valid - as a starting point. However, labeling a car less than acceptable because of lackluster track performance when it’s used on the street seems a bit shortsighted. There are some great performance cars out there, I spent some time in a BMW M2 recently, which was a lot of fun but a horrible street car. I found myself begging to let the revs drop below 4000 and have a calmer ride just to return it. I don’t need to shake my teeth loose just to go out and ride around town. Great for a track day, not interested on the street, and as good as the M2 is, in a wheel to wheel racing situation, any halfway decent prepared dedicated race car will eat its lunch.

Like another one posted, if you want Porsche, it’ll run you a $200k for a decent one, twice as much for a great one. Although that car has great track levels of performance, and in my opinion, is one of the better cars for use on the street, as it remains comfortable ride with extreme performance capabilities. However, for 60 grand, I’ll take the Z all day long.

 

[trackratZ]

Yes, I agree most people cry foul when it’s something they own that’s been criticized. Normal human response. I find that for many people, the current car they own is often the best car they’ve owned - and most people haven’t owned too many, given the average age of a car on the road these days is about 12 1/2 years. So they’re experience with different cars become somewhat limited as a result. And they consequently fight to the nail to prove what they own is the best. Fair enough.

For reference I’ve owned everything from Porsche’s to Ferrari’s to Volkswagen and Hondas - over 150 vehicles. Including two 2024 Zs - boulder gray performance and a heritage. I try to remain open minded. The reason I keep the Z is because I enjoy it, love the look, and think it’s a good value. No, it’s not the best sports car, it’s not the best commuter car, and it’s not the fastest. But it is a grin fest.
For non-biased opinion, it’s very good at what it does at a reasonable price. I don’t get attached to any vehicle and recognize many manufacturers do some things better and some do things not as well.

People don’t always cry foul just to protect what they currently own. Sometimes we cry foul when, in our vast experience, we don’t think the opinion is warranted or appropriate for the intended audience. Measuring the Z against criteria that no one really uses it for in real life doesn’t seem quite fair - but that’s what the enthusiast magazines do and I’m OK with it - only to get an idea of what the performance capabilities are when in a track condition. Using track data for comparison of capabilities between manufacturers is valid - as a starting point. However, labeling a car less than acceptable because of lackluster track performance when it’s used on the street seems a bit shortsighted. There are some great performance cars out there, I spent some time in a BMW M2 recently, which was a lot of fun but a horrible street car. I found myself begging to let the revs drop below 4000 and have a calmer ride just to return it. I don’t need to shake my teeth loose just to go out and ride around town. Great for a track day, not interested on the street, and as good as the M2 is, in a wheel to wheel racing situation, any halfway decent prepared dedicated race car will eat its lunch.

Like another one posted, if you want Porsche, it’ll run you a $200k for a decent one, twice as much for a great one. Although that car has great track levels of performance, and in my opinion, is one of the better cars for use on the street, as it remains comfortable ride with extreme performance capabilities. However, for 60 grand, I’ll take the Z all day long.

Great inputs, and yep owners complaining because of metrics alone, i.e. comparison testing, vs the real emotions of driving, whether at the track or street. I knew when purchasing my Perf 6MT that foremost is the heritage this RZ34 brings to the table (owned 4 240Zs before), and it's a thoroughly great street GT, definitely not a pure sports car, the BMW Supra is tuned more for that, but with many street compromises. That's why I also have a track-only Cayman S set up for that use, and heck a Club Miata that at times and road drives even more fun and grin than the Z, so light nimble and rev-happy! So, if people can afford different 'tools' for the trade, do it. Otherwise, what values your drives, canyon carving, street cruises, the RZ34 is already very good at that, and it's pure JDM bones.

 

[Meg_Z]

Great inputs, and yep owners complaining because of metrics alone, i.e. comparison testing, vs the real emotions of driving, whether at the track or street. I knew when purchasing my Perf 6MT that foremost is the heritage this RZ34 brings to the table (owned 4 240Zs before), and it's a thoroughly great street GT, definitely not a pure sports car, the BMW Supra is tuned more for that, but with many street compromises. That's why I also have a track-only Cayman S set up for that use, and heck a Club Miata that at times and road drives even more fun and grin than the Z, so light nimble and rev-happy! So, if people can afford different 'tools' for the trade, do it. Otherwise, what values your drives, canyon carving, street cruises, the RZ34 is already very good at that, and it's pure JDM bones.

I can’t speak about other owners, but legitimate criticism or critiques I have no problem with. I’ve owned multiple BMWs a Mercedes and an Audi and they all have their pluses and minuses. What bothers me is the people who complain that the a stock Z doesn’t track like this or that vehicles that has either been modded or is way out of its price point. This is why I stated champagne taste and bubble water finances. Everyone knows the Z is a compromise made by a company that for a long time was financially struggling. They made something that the average person could afford and also provided a manual options. In the end to each their own if you want something that will dominate the Ring or other tracks stock maybe this isn’t the car for you.

 

[Nis Mo Z]

Here’s something I’ve seen nobody address yet. The VR30 is a motor that hates 91 octane. The Ford Coyote V8 is the same way. But the BMW S58/B58 perform the same on 91/93 octane. The best 1/4 mile time I’ve seen on a Nismo is from Edmunds(12.3 @116), but that was on 93 octane and 9AT

 

[Exquisite_Red]

No doubt the Supra is the faster car, but something still doesn’t seem right with the Z numbers. That trap speed seems low. The Performance trapped higher??? Doesn’t make sense.

 

[JWG]

Yes, I agree most people cry foul when it’s something they own that’s been criticized. Normal human response. I find that for many people, the current car they own is often the best car they’ve owned - and most people haven’t owned too many, given the average age of a car on the road these days is about 12 1/2 years. So they’re experience with different cars become somewhat limited as a result. And they consequently fight to the nail to prove what they own is the best. Fair enough.

For reference I’ve owned everything from Porsche’s to Ferrari’s to Volkswagen and Hondas - over 150 vehicles. Including two 2024 Zs - boulder gray performance and a heritage. I try to remain open minded. The reason I keep the Z is because I enjoy it, love the look, and think it’s a good value. No, it’s not the best sports car, it’s not the best commuter car, and it’s not the fastest. But it is a grin fest.
For non-biased opinion, it’s very good at what it does at a reasonable price. I don’t get attached to any vehicle and recognize many manufacturers do some things better and some do things not as well.

People don’t always cry foul just to protect what they currently own. Sometimes we cry foul when, in our vast experience, we don’t think the opinion is warranted or appropriate for the intended audience. Measuring the Z against criteria that no one really uses it for in real life doesn’t seem quite fair - but that’s what the enthusiast magazines do and I’m OK with it - only to get an idea of what the performance capabilities are when in a track condition. Using track data for comparison of capabilities between manufacturers is valid - as a starting point. However, labeling a car less than acceptable because of lackluster track performance when it’s used on the street seems a bit shortsighted. There are some great performance cars out there, I spent some time in a BMW M2 recently, which was a lot of fun but a horrible street car. I found myself begging to let the revs drop below 4000 and have a calmer ride just to return it. I don’t need to shake my teeth loose just to go out and ride around town. Great for a track day, not interested on the street, and as good as the M2 is, in a wheel to wheel racing situation, any halfway decent prepared dedicated race car will eat its lunch.

Like another one posted, if you want Porsche, it’ll run you a $200k for a decent one, twice as much for a great one. Although that car has great track levels of performance, and in my opinion, is one of the better cars for use on the street, as it remains comfortable ride with extreme performance capabilities. However, for 60 grand, I’ll take the Z all day long.

My issue is that the 420hp nismo manual is barely faster than the 20 year old 350hp manual Nismo. Seems like the power delivery must truly be trash. Super peaky or something. Or maybe dead up top. Who knows.

Anyway, I test drove an FL5 today, and while slow, the car felt more alive than anything ive driven since my z06, and id say it was even better, truly. Have you got any set time on the CTR and how would you describe it vs the Z?

 

[JWG]

No doubt the Supra is the faster car, but something still doesn’t seem right with the Z numbers. That trap speed seems low. The Performance trapped higher??? Doesn’t make sense.

Thats my point. What did nissan mess up? The manual only tune seems very suspect...


As to the vr30 demanding 93? They make what, 14, 15psi? 400whp? Why should it need 93 for that. Very low stress engine.

 

[romancao]

不，但普通的那个在镜子旁边。
https://www.motortrend.com/features/2023-toyota-gr-supra-manual-first-test-review

据我所知，与标准版相比，A90 最终版配备了升级版的 KW V4 CS 悬挂、更硬的底盘衬套、额外的加强部件以及升级的后轴差速器。四轮外倾角设置和电动助力转向系统也已重新校准。在我看来，比较应采用控制变量法进行。GT4 赛车是一个更合适的基准，因为规定要求赛车必须保留 70% 的原厂部件。

 

[Nis Mo Z]

Thats my point. What did nissan mess up? The manual only tune seems very suspect...


As to the vr30 demanding 93? They make what, 14, 15psi? 400whp? Why should it need 93 for that. Very low stress engine.

You need to do some research on the Nismo specifically. There’s some guys out in California, Specialty Z, that pretty much explains that the Nismo tune hates 91. When they try to tune it ever so slightly it knocks a lot.

Also Car and Driver had the same issue with a Performance model Z that they tested in California. It ran low 13’s in Cali but then when they retested it in Michigan on 93 it was completely different with a mid 12 second 1/4 mile. nissan told them to run octane booster in Cali

There’s a guy on YouTube, Sam CarLegion who encountered the same issue as well with his Nismo he got from the dealership then later retested it with 93 octane to completely different results.

The VR30 is a finicky motor despite the 16 psi, the Nismo makes and the 15 psi the other models make. The other issue is I think the heat exchanger despite being slightly more robust for the Nismo is inadequate for Summer temps.

I run only Shell 93 with a tiny increase in ethanol(e10 to e20), CZP heat exchanger along with intake and exhaust and despite Georgia horrid summer temps the car now feels like it’s experiencing “boost weather” in the worst that Georgia gives it.

 

[JWG]

You need to do some research on the Nismo specifically. There’s some guys out in California, Specialty Z, that pretty much explains that the Nismo tune hates 91. When they try to tune it ever so slightly it knocks a lot.

Also Car and Driver had the same issue with a Performance model Z that they tested in California. It ran low 13’s in Cali but then when they retested it in Michigan on 93 it was completely different with a mid 12 second 1/4 mile. nissan told them to run octane booster in Cali

There’s a guy on YouTube, Sam CarLegion who encountered the same issue as well with his Nismo he got from the dealership then later retested it with 93 octane to completely different results.

The VR30 is a finicky motor despite the 16 psi, the Nismo makes and the 15 psi the other models make. The other issue is I think the heat exchanger despite being slightly more robust for the Nismo is inadequate for Summer temps.

I run only Shell 93 with a tiny increase in ethanol(e10 to e20), CZP heat exchanger along with intake and exhaust and despite Georgia horrid summer temps the car now feels like it’s experiencing “boost weather” in the worst that Georgia gives it.

Maybe motortrend put in 91 that was really 90.5, or 87 even? All I know is the nismo they tested is no faster than the VQ37 really.

 

[Nis Mo Z]

Maybe motortrend put in 91 that was really 90.5, or 87 even? All I know is the nismo they tested is no faster than the VQ37 really.

Check this out. This is C&D test in California. Now the BMW cars are automatics so it’s not apples to apples but they do well on 91 octane nonetheless. But look at the Z Performance manual time and the 480hp Mustang manual on 91.

 

[JWG]

Check this out. This is C&D test in California. Now the BMW cars are automatics so it’s not apples to apples but they do well on 91 octane nonetheless. But look at the Z Performance manual time and the 480hp Mustang manual on 91.

Yeah, but the nismo manual trapping 108? And that number not being an outlier in the data? I really hope they filled it with 87 and ran it on a 105f day.