Thoughts on brakes

[5thZ]

Hi everyone,

I have a Z Sport that I had planned on building out to be a Performance+ spec for track use, so I also already have Akebono calipers, Paragon two-piece rotors, Carbotech pads, etc. They did well for me on my 370z at road Atlanta. Plenty capable.

Now, fortunately or unfortunately, I have decided to sign on the dotted line with SOHO and am now in the process of building a Porsche GT 2 RS beating spec with 700whp and 550tq. Plus kudos if you can come up with a better name for the spec than "Porsche GT 2 RS beating spec".

I know larger brakes don't help stop the car any faster but more so help with preventing overheating. What are your thoughts on high horse power cars and brakes needed?

I have seen someone mention APR brake kit, z1 brake kit (I will probably stay away from Z1 kits), but I've not been able to find anything that's not Z1, to be honest.

I haven't installed the Akebonos yet - they're still in the box, and if I NEED better brakes I'd rather just go to that and not make the hassle of installing Akebonos and then taking them off.

I will be on 200tw tires, and currently have RS4 and R888R but they are used and the R888Rs (rear don't have much life in them). 18" konig hypergram wheels.


PS - don't worry, I will not take 700hp on the track. I will always tune it down. I am nowhere near decent enough to even consider it, so maybe my entire question above is moot!

Thank you!

 

[rocksandblues]

bigger brakes do stop the car faster. Z will never beat a GT2 rs? Put what you have on and get some seat time.

 

[5thZ]

bigger brakes do stop the car faster. Z will never beat a GT2 rs? Put what you have on and get some seat time.

I have read multiple other sources saying they don't, and tire and suspension choice is more effective at stopping the car quickly but I am very interested in hearing more about your thoughts and if what I read was wrong I'd like the option to learn. Looking at your YouTube you clearly have much more experience than me and I'd love to learn and hear your thoughts if you're willing.

Yes, I am fully aware it will not ever beat the Porsche GT 2 RS in a race. I'm not racing. I meant Porsche GT 2 RS spec, WHP/TQ. I fully admit it's an ego thing also because my GT-R had 700whp

 

[RobotAZ]

I have read multiple other sources saying they don't, and tire and suspension choice is more effective at stopping the car quickly but I am very interested in hearing more about your thoughts and if what I read was wrong I'd like the option to learn. Looking at your YouTube you clearly have much more experience than me and I'd love to learn and hear your thoughts if you're willing.

Yes, I am fully aware it will not ever beat the Porsche GT 2 RS in a race. I'm not racing. I meant Porsche GT 2 RS spec, WHP/TQ. I fully admit it's an ego thing also because my GT-R had 700whp

I can tell you with firsthand knowledge owning a Sport with excellent tires that at 125 mph if you hit the brakes hard and aren’t in a perfectly straight path, the nose dive will let the rear end up and start drifting around horribly, and dangerously. The Sport is a GT.

The first thing your car needs is shocks/struts/springs to stop nose dive and tail lift. From there it will be much safer and controllable. You can skimp on most of the parts, making them better but not the best, and have an amazing car. You cannot however skimp with the suspension. It’s gnarly finding out how poorly the Sport handles at 125 mph.

 

[5thZ]

I can tell you with firsthand knowledge owning a Sport with excellent tires that at 125 mph if you hit the brakes hard and aren’t in a perfectly straight path, the nose dive will let the rear end up and start drifting around horribly, and dangerously. The Sport is a GT.

The first thing your car needs is shocks/struts/springs to stop nose dive and tail lift. From there it will be much safer and controllable.

Yes, I have a custom fortune auto built suspension. I appreciate your reply, but this is specifically about larger brakes and brake options that may be out there. I have been on the track before and generally have a good handle on things, and right now just focusing this conversation on brakes.

Thank you

 

[ZillaZ]

I have read multiple other sources saying they don't, and tire and suspension choice is more effective at stopping the car quickly but I am very interested in hearing more about your thoughts and if what I read was wrong I'd like the option to learn. Looking at your YouTube you clearly have much more experience than me and I'd love to learn and hear your thoughts if you're willing.

It doesn't have to be one or the other but @rocksandblues is right, bigger brakes help the car stop faster. Just like bigger (wider) tires help the car with grip / acceleration.

More friction = more force. Stopping or going.

Think about it - if brake size didn't matter then why would people even spend money on big brakes? Why do non-sports cars have much smaller brakes?

 

[rocksandblues]

I have read multiple other sources saying they don't, and tire and suspension choice is more effective at stopping the car quickly but I am very interested in hearing more about your thoughts and if what I read was wrong I'd like the option to learn. Looking at your YouTube you clearly have much more experience than me and I'd love to learn and hear your thoughts if you're willing.

Yes, I am fully aware it will not ever beat the Porsche GT 2 RS in a race. I'm not racing. I meant Porsche GT 2 RS spec, WHP/TQ. I fully admit it's an ego thing also because my GT-R had 700whp

You are reading things from people who are mis-informed.
The Z is a heavy car it will benefit greatly from larger brakes and better fluid. I had a stock performance Z go ice mode on me.

You would also be better off spending $$ on a differential if tracking. The open diff makes the heavy, decent hp Z less than ideal on a track. I would spend money on track time and not HP. Adding HP while learning will just increase your learning curve.

 

[RobotAZ]

Yes, I have a custom fortune auto built suspension. I appreciate your reply, but this is specifically about larger brakes and brake options that may be out there. I have been on the track before and generally have a good handle on things, and right now just focusing this conversation on brakes.

Thank you

Drive the car and if the brakes fade upgrade them.

 

[5thZ]

You are reading things from people who are mis-informed.
The Z is a heavy car it will benefit greatly from larger brakes and better fluid. I had a stock performance Z go ice mode on me.

You would also be better off spending $$ on a differential if tracking. The open diff makes the heavy, decent hp Z less than ideal on a track. I would spend money on track time and not HP. Adding HP while learning will just increase your learning curve.

Hi, yes I have the Nismo GT PRO 1.5 LSD that Nismo used on their super taikyu race car already installed. I believe I mentioned it earlier but I will not be using the high power tune on the track, I will use base mode tune. It's about getting better with fundamentals and being safe, not lap times, that is why I am focusing this topic on brakes (for the safety aspect).

If anyone has suggestions on larger brake kits that would clear 18" wheels while keeping near factory brake bias I would appreciate your input

 

[5thZ]

It doesn't have to be one or the other but @rocksandblues is right, bigger brakes help the car stop faster. Just like bigger (wider) tires help the car with grip / acceleration.

More friction = more force. Stopping or going.

Think about it - if brake size didn't matter then why would people even spend money on big brakes? Why do non-sports cars have much smaller brakes?

The way it was explained to me was temperature control was the biggest factor for larger brakes. Think I read that on 370z forums a while ago. Again, I'm no expert, I'm here to learn and be safe while having a good time not going into a wall

 

[rocksandblues]

The way it was explained to me was temperature control was the biggest factor for larger brakes. Think I read that on 370z forums a while ago. Again, I'm no expert, I'm here to learn and be safe while having a good time not going into a wall

Rotors should be matched to larger calipers and pads. So heat management remains equal. Modern pads do Not off gas like pads from the 80s and 90s.
Have fun .
you didn’t ask but a lot better tire choices for track than r888. There is a new r888+ or something, but I haven’t run that. Otherwise I have run about every 200tw tire out there.

 

[VR30Infection]

My thoughts…. If the factory Performance setup had enough stopping power for serious track time then the GT-4 would have them. The GT-4 car has Brembos that fit under 18’s. Personally, if I were to be targeting close to double the power output, I would be looking to also double the clamping force in the brake system. Unless you only use the extra power at a drag strip where you know you don’t need to stop quickly. Safety first!! Aren’t one of Z1’s offerings pretty much GTR calipers? Although those probably won’t fit under 18’s. Good luck in filling your need. I look forward to hearing the outcome!

 

[FSUZ33]

First thoughts are a master cylinder brace, brake lines and fluid.

Next, an AP or Brembo BBK won't disappoint, other than the impact on your bank account...$7,500-$10K+ for front and rear.

An alternative to this, and still getting 15" up front is the '24+ OEM NISMO/Akebono front upgrade to be used with the new Perf Akebono (14"?) rears you have. Z1 sells the full front conversion for $1,900. Once you burn through the pads you can upgrade, and same with the rotors. Biggest thing in my mind is BBKs are typically 6 piston front calipers where the NISMO/Akebonos are 4 piston. Not that this is saying much, but my bone stock NISMO has much better brake response than my '03 350Z (Track model w/ Brembo, 2-pc DBA rotors and Performance Friction pads).

 

[offizial]

First thoughts are a master cylinder brace, brake lines and fluid.

Next, an AP or Brembo BBK won't disappoint, other than the impact on your bank account...$7,500-$10K+ for front and rear.

An alternative to this, and still getting 15" up front is the '24+ OEM NISMO/Akebono front upgrade to be used with the new Perf Akebono (14"?) rears you have. Z1 sells the full front conversion for $1,900. Once you burn through the pads you can upgrade, and same with the rotors. Biggest thing in my mind is BBKs are typically 6 piston front calipers where the NISMO/Akebonos are 4 piston. Not that this is saying much, but my bone stock NISMO has much better brake response than my '03 350Z (Track model w/ Brembo, 2-pc DBA rotors and Performance Friction pads).

Thanks for the tip! Nismo 15” on the front sounds like a great idea for affordability and performance.

 

[FSUZ33]

Not to mention, right now OEM replacement from Nissan for the NISMO fronts, pads and rotors, is about $450. $250 for a front pad set + $95 ea for the front rotors. For some BBKs you can get replacement rotors and hardware (reuse the hat), but you're talking $1,000+ total just for two front rotors. Not that OEM NISMO-spec rotors perform like AP or Brembo, but it's really about how much more you want to pay for not a ton more relative performance.

Don't get me wrong, if I had the expendable cash I'd already have a massive $10K+ set of APs on my car right now. But it wouldn't have really any affect on driving. Like buying $10K downhill skis isn't going to put you in competition with the pros.