ZdayZ 2021

Houston.RZ34

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400hp, 35k.

I've heard 400hp only, no 300hp option.

Makes sense as the 400hp flavor of VR30 is the one with optical turbo speed sensors and we have a dedicated gauge for Turbo RPMs on the dash.

Also, Nissan is in a position where they have to go for the throat....400hp for 35k is going for the throat of the Supra (main target) and it'll have the big 3 looking over their shoulders.
 

Houston.RZ34

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Don't become fixated on the hp number - it's all in how it puts it to the road.
I agree however the general buying public only sees HP numbers (they always have) - how else do you think Dodge sells?

400hp is what they can offer out of the Parts Bin where it still makes business sense to the bottom line.
 

ceric

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400hp, 35k.
With that elegant look, $35k price tag and 400hp under the hood, the new Z will be a runaway success for Nissan.
Take me for an example. I have never owned a Nissan. This Z got my attention.

Have been watching C8 for over one year. Couldn't pull the trigger. Hard to get, and problematic.
Watched the Acura TLX Type-S. 355hp, 4200lbs. Over-weigh, under-powered.
Then, Z showed up.
 

RicerX

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I agree however the general buying public only sees HP numbers (they always have) - how else do you think Dodge sells?

400hp is what they can offer out of the Parts Bin where it still makes business sense to the bottom line.
I agree with you on the general public sentiment. However, like the Z, the cult following of the muscle cars of yesteryear is Dodge's core buyer base that they must satisfy first, and they're successful there, and they're successful without the additional buyers they get from the cheaper and more volume-driven variants of the muscled up versions we tend to point to in these debates. But those cars exist not because they make 400hp versions of them, but because they make less powerful cheaper versions to sell at volume to sustain the rest of the lineup that doesn't sell at volume. It's cool they exist and they do have buyers, but the SRT models and Hellcat models don't exist on their own. It's very tough to justify building a car like that from a business standpoint.

Your last statement... 400hp is what they can offer out of the parts bin, yes. Business sense? The horsepower number is the marketing for the general sports car buyer. The performance numbers on the track vs other things you can buy at the price point is what will sell it to the "real sports car guys" you need to buy this Z and rep it. Business sense will be competitive on-track performance for the dollar for the least amount of cost possible. If they can make this car wreck a track at $30k with 300hp they'll do it and the purists will buy it. The Miata has always had a solid buyer base because it has always punched above its weight on a track despite never offering more than 181hp. The right set of buyers for a performance car like this will overlook the horsepower figure if the whole package puts it to the ground in a way that makes the car truly fast. Point being - there's still a business case for a 300hp version. Don't confuse marketability (and personal preference) with what makes business sense to a cash-strapped Nissan. All of us Z guys want the most killer thing we can get for $35k and those of us have had 370Zs don't just want 350hp again. I get it, but you have to consider the overall landscape of potential buyers Nissan has to consider to make this work, and among those most important, you need younger buyers if at all possible. It's why Chevy made the leap it made with the C8 Corvette - their primary demographic is aging out quickly.

If it was just about the horsepower number, the Q50 Red Sport would outsell the BMW M-Sport 3 series in droves, but it doesn't because it has a terrible transmission and average handling dynamics despite offering the most horsepower in its class. Same with the Q60.

Besides, everyone clamoring for it to have 400hp so it can compete with the Mustang - maybe you'll capture a couple fringe prospective Mustang buyers out of this if you sell a competitively priced 400hp version of the car, but the goal isn't to put a car out with 400hp so it can compete with a Mustang. Nissan can't compete with the Mustang with a traditional Z car no matter how much horsepower it makes. They're too different, but the primary reason being the Z is not nor has it ever been a volume sales car like the Mustang has been for decades. You'll compromise too much about what the Z is supposed to be in order to make it a volume seller, and that will piss off the whole cult following that has sustained it for five decades, and it will fail as a flash-in-the-pan car. They hinted at this approach with both the Altima Coupe and G37 coupe - look where it went.

All that said - the real future of the Z beyond this "plus-up" we're getting is a fully-electric platform, and that's when you can really revisit what the Z can be in the market if Nissan gets it there fast enough.
 

TaroBaapG35

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I'm more interested in the torque and hope the 350 is a little on the conservative side.
Lol trust me, with a car w/turbo, 350 torque is no joke. My S4 is now at ~390tq and the car pulls hard. As soon as you dip into throttle (even 50%) the torque delivery is pretty instant and you get pushed back into the seat. Full throttle and since it's AWD it feels like a GT-R like launch. But now put that torque in RWD and 6mt, and you've got mad slippage. Think about BMW M2s/M3s that spin in first 2 gears.
 

spencello

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With that elegant look, $35k price tag and 400hp under the hood, the new Z will be a runaway success for Nissan.
Take me for an example. I have never owned a Nissan. This Z got my attention.

Have been watching C8 for over one year. Couldn't pull the trigger. Hard to get, and problematic.
Watched the Acura TLX Type-S. 355hp, 4200lbs. Over-weigh, under-powered.
Then, Z showed up.
My thoughts exactly. That, and the C8/TLX are just priced out of my current comfort level (which I believe reflects a large portion of the community). Knowing Nissan's success with the Z platforms, especially 240 and 300, as well as the R35, I look for the new Z to be hugely successful in terms of bolt-on performance. This will play a big factory in the Z's sales figures at this projected price range. We already see how successful the "limited" run of FK8 CT-Rs was. The FK8 community is chomping at the bit for more, with quite a few people migrating to different platforms - the Z will just be another attractive option. Originally I saw the TLX-S projected into the $63k range, which was just unattractive and underperforming. Sure the car will sell, have a niche following and respond well to basic bolt-ons (ie ECU reflash, downpipe and intercooler), but it's essentially a boat that doesn't compare to the IS500 or Audis or BMWs. $53k sounds much nicer, but just doesn't appeal to me (mainly in terms of price point, power or sportiness - no man pedal).

Lol trust me, with a car w/turbo, 350 torque is no joke. My S4 is now at ~390tq and the car pulls hard. As soon as you dip into throttle (even 50%) the torque delivery is pretty instant and you get pushed back into the seat. Full throttle and since it's AWD it feels like a GT-R like launch. But now put that torque in RWD and 6mt, and you've got mad slippage. Think about BMW M2s/M3s that spin in first 2 gears.
For sure! You know that the torque/power delivery is dampened with factory ECU mapping. Though rated at 305 hp & 295 ft/lb tq, the FK8 can make 400+ Ft/lb tq at around 2,000 RPM if you can make it on stock turbo and essentially right out of the gate with tuning (though most anyone is going to advise to stay under 400 tq on a 4-cylinder). Even in stock form the FK8 feels nice. I can imagine that a 3.0L twin setup feel even better in a similarly weighted chassis. - Look at the Q50 & Q60 thus far. Simple bolt-ons, a tune and a fat tire in the rear will be more than enough for the average consumer.
 

Bobcat

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Nice. I know when I had my genesis coupe 2.0T, just an intake an tune really woke that thing up. I never had it dyno'd, but wouldn't be surprise if it was putting out a little over 300 compared to the stock 215 or so. What I'm wondering is how picky Nissan will be with mods and warranty? I know most companies and getting much more strict these days. That is one of the reasons I'm hesitating on ordering the Challenger at the moment. That 392 is pretty stout from the factory (especially the torque), but hear its nearly maxed out already and basic bolt-ons do practically nothing and you have to get a tune or put some headers on it to pick up any real gains and then if anything happens to the motor, they most likely won't honor the warranty.
 

TaroBaapG35

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Any mods on any car can be flagged and could void your warranty if the dealership can prove the mod itself caused the problem (Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act). The thing with FI cars is that, you get massive power bumps with basic Bolt-Ons compared to NA, but the risk you run is that there are more pieces that can possibly fail. Audi dealerships are notorious for flagging cars TD1 if they are tuned, which means that your car is completely void of warranty coverage. Main reason why I haven't tuned my car yet. Honestly, just do an Intercooler, Intake, Downpipes, Exhaust and JB4/EcuTek and you're already at 443whp/475wtq(+63hp/+122tq), 510hp/545tq @ crank (+109hp/+193tq) on a red sport. And this is just an approximation, not the max.

My advice, get in good with a dealership/service advisor that is mod friendly and you'll be fine. When I had my 370z I would only take it to 1 dealer in my city because the employees there owned modded cars (as well as the GM!). Now I follow the same on my Audi; I drive an hour away for service/warranty work because the dealership is very open to Mods and they treat the car like their own).
 

BJM2021

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I agree however the general buying public only sees HP numbers (they always have) - how else do you think Dodge sells?

400hp is what they can offer out of the Parts Bin where it still makes business sense to the bottom line.
Perfect makes sense to us too...lol
 

Houston.RZ34

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Any mods on any car can be flagged and could void your warranty if the dealership can prove the mod itself caused the problem (Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act). The thing with FI cars is that, you get massive power bumps with basic Bolt-Ons compared to NA, but the risk you run is that there are more pieces that can possibly fail. Audi dealerships are notorious for flagging cars TD1 if they are tuned, which means that your car is completely void of warranty coverage. Main reason why I haven't tuned my car yet. Honestly, just do an Intercooler, Intake, Downpipes, Exhaust and JB4/EcuTek and you're already at 443whp/475wtq(+63hp/+122tq), 510hp/545tq @ crank (+109hp/+193tq) on a red sport. And this is just an approximation, not the max.

My advice, get in good with a dealership/service advisor that is mod friendly and you'll be fine. When I had my 370z I would only take it to 1 dealer in my city because the employees there owned modded cars (as well as the GM!). Now I follow the same on my Audi; I drive an hour away for service/warranty work because the dealership is very open to Mods and they treat the car like their own).
Co-Sign on the above.

I had a FBO + Tuned Z4 35i (N54 motor) and it was a royal pain in the ass to take it back to stock and reflash it every time it broke and it broke.......often
 
 





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