What Will the New Z Bring to the Table over the 370Z and Other Competition

[Trackaholic]

Hey All,

Looking for a discussion on what people think the new Z will bring in terms of improvements over the 370z, and how it will compare to the competition (specifically the Supra).

I currently have a GT350, but before that had a 2003 350Z that I loved. Owned it until a few years ago, and put on 200,000 miles and tons of track days and AutoX.

I never really liked the exterior look of the 370Z, and was not a fan of the interior at all, but this new Z is beautiful IMO and the interior is very elegant. I really miss my old Z, and while I don't plan on getting rid of the GT350, I would like to add a smaller sports car at some point.

So, since I've been out of the Z game for quite a while, I was wondering what people thought the new Z would need to improve on in order to compete. My recollection is that even the 370Z Nismo was a bit outclassed by other, more modern vehicles. I don't love the looks of the Supra, but the performance and driving engagement gets very high marks from everything I've seen.

Seems like the new Z will likely be slower, and since it is on the same platform as the 370Z, how much improved do people think it will be? Now, the GT350 is on the same platform as the normal Mustang, but really takes the car to a new level, so it seems Nissan could certainly do something similar with the Z by tweaking the right places. For the GT350, Ford changed the suspension tuning (springs, shocks, sways), put on much wider tires, much better brakes, of course a different engine and transmission, and (I think very importantly) beefier hubs. Also importantly for track duty, they added engine oil coolers, transmission oil coolers, and differential coolers.

Do we know if Nissan has any similar plans for the new Z compared to the 370Z?

• IMO they need to work on the balance a bit (my 350Z needed a bit of adjustment to dial in the balance, but it wasn't too hard with some aftermarket tweaks).
• Any thoughts about weight? The GT350 is about 3800 lbs but is pretty nimble (still a large car though). Would love to see the Z at 3400 or less.
• Love that the Z still has a stick shift, and I am a fan of the rev-matching for the track is it can help correct a poor heel-toe attempt.
• My 350Z would heat up the differential quite a bit (at some point I removed the viscous limited slip and installed a Quaife unit). Glad that the new Z is getting a mechanical limited slip. Hopefully it is well tuned.
• I also added a Stoptech front BBK to my 350Z, which was awesome. Very easy to change pads. The performance brakes look decent, but still seem to have solid cast iron hats (no two-piece rotors like on the Z Proto). I wonder how they will hold up. Good to see two piston rear calipers, rather than single piston sliding calipers like were on my 350Z.
• The ride on my 350Z was pretty flinty. The GT350 is smoother in some respects, but also more stiff in others. It does have the magnetic dampers that can give a very good blend of compliance and control.
• Sounds like the Z will get electronic power steering, rather than hydraulic. The 350Z had pretty good steering feel, especially by modern standards. Does Nissan have much experience with EPS systems on Infiniti branded cars? Anyone worried about that aspect?

Overall I guess I expect the Z to be very fun to drive, but probably not as good as the Supra from an objective standpoint. I think the manual transmission will really help the engagement, and for me, the looks alone are enough to win me over. Interested in what others think needs to be improved from the 370Z to have a car that feels new, rather than a 370Z with a body kit.

Not sure if this should go in the Z vs. Competition section, so feel free to move if that makes sense.

Here are a couple shots of my 350Z and GT350 before I sold the Z (damn I miss that car).

-T

 

[West Aussie]

Looks good, goes fast, has manual as an option….that’s already more than most competitors if not all competitors

 

[TaroBaapG35]

For me, It'll boil down to reviews I read/see from actual owners who modify their cars + Carlos Lago. Carlos' review solidified my choice for the 370z. Hopefully he has good things to say of the new Z. Everyone is benchmarking the BRZ/GR86 and Supra against this. So as long its a worthy contender, even if it doesn't throw the Supra off its pedestal, many many will still prefer the Z (LIKE ME!)

I can posit some of my observations from owning a 370z and having alot of seat time in a DE 350z.

• IMO they need to work on the balance a bit (my 350Z needed a bit of adjustment to dial in the balance, but it wasn't too hard with some aftermarket tweaks). You'll def need something like this. 370z suffered from bodyroll etc, and this being a 370z+ chassis, you'll need same adjustments. Think Springs/Coils, Swaybars & endlinks to get the occasional track fun in.
• Any thoughts about weight? The GT350 is about 3800 lbs but is pretty nimble (still a large car though). Would love to see the Z at 3400 or less. Weight will also be approx the same if not more then 370z. VR30 is ~20lbs heaver then VQ37, + added tech, - chassis adjustments. Could net marginally close. But, offset is the additional power and wider track OEM. See new GR86 vs GT86 tests and you'll encounter same scenario.
• Love that the Z still has a stick shift, and I am a fan of the rev-matching for the track is it can help correct a poor heel-toe attempt. I LOVED this feature, especially as a daily in traffic was quite fun. Plus the 370z was first to have this feature.
• My 350Z would heat up the differential quite a bit (at some point I removed the viscous limited slip and installed a Quaife unit). Glad that the new Z is getting a mechanical limited slip. Hopefully it is well tuned. Every hardcore track enthusiast that I spoke to and rode with on their tuned 370z, many said to replace the limited slip. This could still be the case here.
• I also added a Stoptech front BBK to my 350Z, which was awesome. Very easy to change pads. The performance brakes look decent, but still seem to have solid cast iron hats (no two-piece rotors like on the Z Proto). I wonder how they will hold up. Good to see two piston rear calipers, rather than single piston sliding calipers like were on my 350Z. I would advise track pads & fluid change for sure. I ran a few hot laps on VIR and couid tell the brakes giving out with stock hardware. Using track pads, slotted rotors and better fluid def helped.
• The ride on my 350Z was pretty flinty. The GT350 is smoother in some respects, but also more stiff in others. It does have the magnetic dampers that can give a very good blend of compliance and control. The 370z was much more refined compared to the 350z (-Nismo 350). The ride will no way be comparable to the mag dampers. This is where the Supra will also outshine the Z for sure. Any dynamic/adjustable dampers will beat OE setup (-P-Cars).
• Sounds like the Z will get electronic power steering, rather than hydraulic. The 350Z had pretty good steering feel, especially by modern standards. Does Nissan have much experience with EPS systems on Infiniti branded cars? Anyone worried about that aspect? Nissan does have experience in EPS (my mom's murano has it). It's decent, nothing like the hydraulic feeling for sure, but dead space is only near center. We'll have to see how it fares in the Z. Hopefully they don't make it numb (like Audi )

 

[johnny_10196]

A lot of A90 guys are hoping with the success of a manual Z that it would get Toyota to reconsider the auto only on the Supra.

 

[Trackaholic]

Great info Taro! Thanks for the details.

Regarding the differential, I see on the release specs it says a "clutch type" differential. The Quaife unit I had on my 350Z is similar to the Torsen on my GT350 I believe (a system using witchcraft and gears on shafts with controlled friction characteristics to transfer torque to the wheel with more traction). They have the benefit of very smooth engagement, quiet operation, minimal wear, and minimal maintenance. The downside is that the torque transferred is proportional to the grip of the tire with the least amount of traction. So if one wheel is lifted, no torque is transferred and the differential acts as an open diff.

Many clutch type differentials use a spring and clutch plates to transfer the torque, as well as wedges to increase the clutch clamping force when torque is applied to the differential. During a turn, the different speed of the wheels will overpower the clutches, causing slip and allowing the wheels to turn at different speeds. If one wheel starts to lose traction, the spring and clutches will insure that some torque always goes to the non-spinning wheel. When the wheels are both loaded, the torque going through the differential will increase the clutch strength further. These types of differentials need to balance a low clutch strength to achieve good turning performance and a high clutch strength to insure good locking performance. This can be done through various tweaks to the design. The downsides of the clutch type is that you can have wear of the clutches and may need more maintenance. They can also be noisy or jumpy when turning (depending on how they are tuned). The upside is that even when a wheel is lifted, the clutches will always transfer some torque to the wheel with traction.

Anyhow, does anyone have thoughts on using clutch type limited slip differentials? How progressive is the locking action? How responsive? I'm sure an OEM version will have relatively low locking forces in order to minimize wear as well as noise, vibration, and strange behavior when daily driving. Do any of the Infiniti products give us an idea of the type of limited slip diff that will be used? Or maybe even the GT-R?

-T