AT vs MT confusion

[Mr. Mac]

I'm confused. Ever since Nissan introduced the NISMO version of new Z I've repeatedly read/heard numerous times that the two reasons they didn't offer it in a manual are....

1) Nissan didn't want their most state-of-the-art flagship Z to have slower numbers than what it's capable of, particularly in comparison to Sport/Performance variants, and it's competition (Supra, etc.). >>> OK, I somewhat understand that, especially from a marketing perspective, even though I personally think that decision is a bit foolish given they're forfeiting sales of the NISMO to those who would only buy it as an MT.

and...

2) Nissan's current manual transmission in the Zs can't safely handle the increased torque/power of the NISMO. >>> This I'm not understanding since I've seen plenty of non-NISMO Zs built with aftermarket performance mods that are certainly producing way more torque/power (presumably reliably) than that of a stock NISMO, which are only modest increases from factory over Sport/Performance Zs to begin with (350tq/400hp vs 384tq/420hp).

What am I missing here? Are all the people stating reason #2 confused as well, misled, or straight-up lying? I'm not wanting this to turn into another raging AT vs MT opinion debate thread (I personally dig them both equally for different reasons), rather just hoping those who are more knowledgable about this particular subject can help shed some objective light on what's not making any apparent sense for the reasons mentioned.

PS: Here's just few examples of numerous I've heard/read that are causing the confusion.

"the Z’s nine-speed automatic transmission has been beefed up for NISMO duty" — Hiroshi Tamura, chief product specialist of the Nissan Z and GT-R

"Sure, it may not have a manual gearbox, but let's not forget that the decision was made to ensure the car could handle the increased power and torque while meeting quality and reliability standards." – Wheel Circuit

Video starting at 3:49 mark...

 

[Zenogias]

I'm confused. Ever since Nissan introduced the NISMO version of new Z I've repeatedly read/heard numerous times that the two reasons they didn't offer it in a manual are....

1) Nissan didn't want their most state-of-the-art flagship Z to have slower numbers than what it's capable of, particularly in comparison to Sport/Performance variants, and it's competition (Supra, etc.). >>> OK, I somewhat understand that, especially from a marketing perspective, even though I personally think that decision is a bit foolish given they forfeiting sales of the NISMO to those who would only buy one in manual.

and...

2) Nissan's current manual transmission in the Zs can't safely handle the increased torque/power of the NISMO. >>> This I'm not understanding since I've seen plenty of non-NISMO Zs built with aftermarket performance mods that are certainly producing way more torque/power (presumably reliably) than that of a stock NISMO, which are only modest increases from factory over Sport/Performance Zs to begin with (350tq/400hp vs 384tq/420hp).

What am I missing here? I'm not wanting this to turn into another raging AT vs MT opinion debate thread (I personally dig them both equally for different reasons), rather just hoping those who are more knowledgable about this particular subject can help shed some objective light on what's not making any apparent sense for the reasons mentioned.

Yeah I think you've successfully sus'd out the fact that reason #2 is absolute BS.

Reason #1 may be partially true, but I think what it really comes down to is Nissan isn't made of money these days and they know the majority of NISMO buyers are buying it for laptimes/speed bragging and will go with the faster auto.

Would there be some people who would buy a manual NISMO for 12k more than the manual Performance? Yeah, but the percentage would be less than 20% of total buyers in my estimation, and at that clip the cost to develop a manual version probably doesn't make economic sense for the company.

 

[FSUZ33]

My take:

1. Not offering the MT in the Z NISMO was a flat out, no questions asked, mistake. I feel like they missed out on a great opportunity (more sales & avoiding deep dealer discounts, AND the enthusiast/street cred). On the other hand, for me personally, I felt all of the models were overpriced. I was also only interested in the NISMO, and I wasn't paying $70K+ regardless of whether it had a manual or not...but that's just me. The $8,500 dealer + $2,500 Nissan discounts are the SOLE reason I bought it a couple of months ago. Maybe if they had offered the MT there still would have been AT's sitting around, but I don't think they would be sitting around as long as they have been (and still are!), as I assume production qty would have stayed the same, just less ATs produced offset by the MT units. There's a dealer here in FL that's had the same 2 black NISMOs for almost a year and a half. VIN 1205 dated Dec 13, '23, and VIN 0808 dated Jan 12, '24. They're both $6K discount + $3K Nissan cash (~$58K before the additional crap), which clearly isn't enticing anyone enough.

2. The Red Sports were AT only. Scuttlebutt behind that was... ...trying to avoid language here that would create an AT vs MT battle... ...'their average clientele preferred an experience that was better suited to an automatic transmission.' My thought is the "the NISMO has too much power for the MT" was either birthed by the internet echo chamber, or IF it was legitimately stated by Nissan, that was Marketing BS to make people think the NISMO was more of a beast than it really was/is.

Side note:
Earlier this week I noticed re. the transmissions, MSRP from Nissan on the MT is ~$3,000 and the AT is ~$9,600.

Two things on that:
1. MSRP for the Perf AT and Perf MT are the same, right?
So is the Perf MT overpriced, or is the Perf AT underpriced? There's clearly a significant raw cost difference (Nissan's cost) between the two transmissions, and I doubt the cost of the MT shifter and linkage is more than the electronic AT Dork Stalk (I'm allowed to call it that only because I have one!). Unless there are other parts/factors I'm not thinking of that cost Nissan thousands more for the MT, there's clearly more margin in the MT than the AT.

2. Although the Perf AT and NISMO AT have different OEM part numbers, their MSRP is identical, to the penny. That tells me they may be identical, regardless of their OEM pn. Are they actually, or are we led to believe they're different internally, or is it known the differences are all electronic/software/firmware differences?
I have no idea if they're actually identical, but it was interesting to see the exact same MSRP, as sometimes simple OEM parts like left front and right front brake rotors can have different MSRPs, which tells me the MSRP is directly linked to Nissan's raw cost.

 

[HAVS]

I defiantly believe they lost sales due to that decision.

 

[Mugzilla]

Maybe being 49 makes me "old", but I don't consider a car a "sports car" or a "Performance car" if it does not have a manual transmission. IDGAF if it is a Porsche, Lambo, Ferrari, GT-500, etc.

I've said it repeatedly, and I'll give the devil his due; the AT will beat me in my 6MT Sport (WITH a factory LSD) every day of the week, and twice on Sunday. I get that. But with an AT you lose that connection, that synergy with the car. You lose the feedback. You don't know where your car makes it's power by the FEEL you get from the "pedal push vs RPM vs what gear you are in". I don't really "shift" the Z. I end up slowing down, and my mind, left foot, and right hand instinctively put it in the correct gear.

My $0.02.

 

[chadhunley]

Apparently, BMW has a similar theory for not offering a manual with the new M2 CS . I came across this article a couple of days ago.


The 2026 BMW M2 CS is exclusively offered with an eight-speed automatic transmission, according to the BMW Blog. This decision is primarily due to the limitations of the manual transmission technology in handling the 500+ horsepower output of the S58 engine. BMW's manual transmission provider, Getrag, uses designs that are 20-30 years old and unable to cope with the increased torque. Opting for the automatic gearbox allows BMW to fully unlock the engine's performance and optimize acceleration and lap times, which are key focus areas for the track-focused CS model.

 

[FSUZ33]

Maybe being 49 makes me "old"...

I'll be 49 for 4 more months, and I can truthfully say that's not old.
I mean, I feel old on the inside the vast majority of the time. And I'm starting to look pretty old on the outside. But I'm sticking to my guns; 49 isn't old. 50, on the other hand...

All said and done, I'd still swap my AT for an MT if I could snap my fingers and make it so. If they bring in an MT for '26 and don't ruin anything else, I may have to make a financially uncomfortable decision. I've driven a manual since I started driving, other than the quick-ish stint in a 2005 Touring Z33. A lot of people don't understand (or process correctly) the mechanical connection and feeling of control you get from a manual. They always default to the 'I don't want to have to constantly shift in traffic' excuse. To me, driving a manual is just as simple and brainless as driving an automatic. My left leg and right arm are moving a little more, but it's purely natural at this point, almost no conscious thought/effort involved...daily driving anyway.

That's specifically why I don't like EVs. Regardless of how "quick" or "fast" or "agile" a car is, you should be as connected as possible and in full control when driving a car, and especially a sports car.

Unfortunately, I say this as a 2024 NISMO owner. I'm like the fat guy that doesn't exercise preaching to others about losing weight.

Oh well. No one's perfect.

 

[Bumflik]

Fast very fast with no sound, no choice or control of gearing is numb and dull driving.people love riding horses because they feel alive and connected to the Horse. Cars have become technological marvels for long distance commutes in a flash compared to horseback travel. But we are bored and lost a natural connection to being alive due to automation. The manual allows for that control and connection similarly to riding a horse galloping along.

 

[Mr. Mac]

no choice or control of gearing

Not sure if you've ever actually driven a NISMO before because this part of your statement is objectively incorrect as it has a Manual Mode that allows the driver to control the gearing using paddle shifters.

 

[Mr. Mac]

Apparently, BMW has a similar theory for not offering a manual with the new M2 CS . I came across this article a couple of days ago.


The 2026 BMW M2 CS is exclusively offered with an eight-speed automatic transmission, according to the BMW Blog. This decision is primarily due to the limitations of the manual transmission technology in handling the 500+ horsepower output of the S58 engine. BMW's manual transmission provider, Getrag, uses designs that are 20-30 years old and unable to cope with the increased torque. Opting for the automatic gearbox allows BMW to fully unlock the engine's performance and optimize acceleration and lap times, which are key focus areas for the track-focused CS model.

Wow, that does sound suspiciously like what I've been hearing from Nissan this whole time.

 

[Mr. Mac]

Yeah I think you've successfully sus'd out the fact that reason #2 is absolute BS.

That's what I'm starting to gather.

 

[FSUZ33]

Not offering MT in the NISMO is one thing. The next level, in my mind anyway, is piping in fake exhaust pops/burbles.
It is purely and frankly embarrassing.
I don't know how I'm going to respond when/if someone brings it up. I hope I have it turned off by that point. If not, I WILL 100% lie and tell them I have.

 

[Mr. Mac]

The next level, in my mind anyway, is piping in fake exhaust pops/burbles.

Haha, yep, when I first discovered that nonsense I thought it was some sorta joke. Boy was I wrong lol. Thankfully one of the bonuses of upgrading the audio system is that I was able to easily get rid that synthetic bullish*t (as well as the ANC stuff) when bypassing the OEM amplifier.

 

[Bumflik]

Not sure if you've ever actually driven a NISMO before because this part of your statement is objectively incorrect as it has a Manual Mode that allows the driver to control the gearing using paddle shifters.

Paddle shifters are fun and cool. But I prefer the manual.

 

[RobotAZ]

The manual to me feels like an old grandma car. Maybe that’s what they were thinking. Regardless, complaining changes nothing.