Y_PLZ

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Founder of Club4AG, Moto Miwa (better known as Moto) got to drive the 2023 Nissan Z and shared his thoughts on how it compares to the A90 MKV Supra:
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Well, I had the rare and precious opportunity to test drive the Nissan Z quite liberally yesterday, and this is what I felt.

I will leave the comments of numbers, other raw objective matters off this one since, it’s basically just a can of worms for fan-based flame wars. Besides, my drive was not in any way an objective test or benchmarking task, but a drive, as a driver, on a bunch of roads. I will reference the Supra A90 and 86 in this as well to give you an idea of how things feel, as many are very familiar by now on those cars at speeds and in town these days.

The new Z is a substantial car visually, in person, and I guess that comes from a bigger glass house.

It's a brighter interior too with vision outwards being a little more expansive than the Supra.

While the actual dimension of the Z is smack almost identical to the dimensions of the Supra, the Z is proportioned for more cabins space, and less engine bay by cramming the V6 like its predecessors, helped by the shorter dimensions of a V6 configuration over Supra’s longitudinal mounted straight six. So, what you get is a much more usable cabin for two, and a flatter rear cargo shelf as well. IN short, the Z is slightly comfier and more practical in day-to-day use.

So that’s about the biggest practicality difference for all intents and purposes.

However, the biggest shock to me is how different the Z drives compared to the Supra. I will first tell you that ne isn’t better than the other.

Just uniquely different.

Very different probably, to even a driver not seasoned in the ways of throwing cars around on raceway.

The minute I get into the Nissan Z, I noticed that even black interior color car seemed much brighter, airier, and roomier than the Supra. I don’t have the measurements, but things like slots for the seats and how massive sports car traditions of dash and center to door panels didn’t protrude into the driver or passengers in odd places like many cars of this class. It feels more naturally flowing and visually welcoming than the odd 370Z before it too. Glass area seems to have a lower beltline than Supra, perhaps not physically in terms of body proportions, but perhaps related to how you sit in the car.

I am sure you will get a lot of the shapes and touch critiques elsewhere, so I won’t elaborate here.

Driving off, onto the road, what immediately makes apparent is the supple, soft, and mature ride character of this car. But don’t let my words fool you, it is still a sharp and responsive car. It’s just that it does this without the thuds and fat steering wheel reminding you about it.

And how very assisted the controls are too, from light steering effort and brake pedal assist. It is snappy in ratio, sure, but it isn’t screaming at you about “track day” purpose like the recent GR line of cars from Toyota.

Things just feel a bit more at ease as you drive off. And that is not a bad thing at all. It’s actually a nice trait if this is to be a day-to-day commute car.

I get it in second gear, with the firm, heavy-actuating shifter that is a signature for any transmission that can hold down a big dose of torque. It isn’t exactly like the BRZ or small Honda sticks, where you can just flick the lever with the wrist and fingertips.

You’re grabbing this one and guiding each cog and shaft to each detent with a degree of effort for sure.

In fact, this clunky nature of heavy-duty transmission actuations, is exactly what the Toyota people didn’t like so much on a modern car, and to our dismay, was left out in the first 3 years of the A90 Supra models. That, until the entire world of car fans screamed at them for making that choice.

The Nissan Z, like the Corvette, Mustang, and Big Porsches, didn’t mind that sort of effort in shifts at all, and we don’t either, right?
Well Supra will go that route too this year, finally.
Thankfully, I should say.

So yeah, back to driving.

Here is where the Z differs from the Supra. The Z with its softer low-speed compression dampers, mechanical, mind you, no electronic wizards here in the shocks, will hunker down, squat, and this takes a split second
after you floor the pedal.

With the natural inertia of physics, and with a slight turbo lag, giving enough time for the car to get the nose up attitude, and traction secured, the turbo snaps to full fury and thunders the car forward.

Now the Z doesn’t come with ultra-grippy stock rubber shoes, but it plants enough weight to the rear on acceleration in such timely way, that it will secure the normal-ish compound tire on the pavement under some pretty big torque.

The stock LSD that came with this Performance Pack optioned car, kept the car going down the road arrow-straight.
It feels quick, and probably is.
In no way does the extra weight over the Supra, make this car feel slower.

Row through the gears, I was at 80 in no time
A speed that we can’t exceed much more without getting arrested in Southern California highways. And I really did mean, No Time. It is fast.
But I had to watch the speedometer too, since the car rides nicely and effortlessly, that it doesn’t feel like you’re at speeds approaching havoc.

Compared, and doing the same thing in the Supra or 86, there is much more drama. Augmented engine sounds are louder, and tires tell you on the Toyotas about every pebble you drive over, to feed you absolute surface and contact patch information. The Supra is all-business of helping you test your skills and limits, and assumes your every drive will be one of connecting yourself to the road.

You feel things in the Supra which is nice on a track, but in the Z, you are muted from any unnecessary information that doesn’t need to be felt on a highway.

While quiet and soft, the Z does have great road manners at larger dose of G’s though.

Its suspension rolls side to side, predictably, and exactly how you’d expect it. And the front tires will trace exactly where you wanted it to go. It soaks bumps and keeps it tightly on the racing line, and sort of has the late model AMG feel

Perhaps the double A-arm front suspension is to credit for that. Supra’s McPherson struts are, on the contrary, begging to be loaded, flung, and steered into the tire’s sidewall max loads. The joy like 90’s BMWs at limits, and 86 even more so with lighter chassis and package.

The Z is, therefore, a bit more of a gentleman or sorts, but a VERY capable one who doesn’t flaunt or shout.
As with affinity to other people, what you prefer here is subjective though right?

Keep in mind too, that this is a comparison stock for stock.
They are both, two seat, near 50/50 weighted, rear driven, rigid boned, sports coupes after all.
The Supra and the Z, and with modifications, can become like the other and something else beyond, we all know that.

But as it comes from the factory, the Z has a state of tune, that is sophisticated.
Supra being a bit more focused on being a sporting equipment.
Both fast, and both probably similar enough when people look at the numbers and performance data.

Being a driving enthusiast is FUN.

And having more choices in cars like these today, in 2022 is extremely important.

Papers and excel data are just that, and to a truly capable driver, they don’t mean much.
We are humans, and when developed to feel things, and set cars into finer art of motion, two cars that have the similar enough 0-60 times or lateral loading capacity, can feel like completely different animals.

I can see this Z was a product of Mr.Tamura too. He’s done the revision of the later R35 GTR’s and that is a very refined car too, with plenty of maturity over the R35’s of the first five years that felt darty, menacing, and immediate. Tamura-san was able to magically massage the later R35 to something comfortable, delicate, and solid, while also surpassing every numerics of the previous tune.

The Z corners with stable manners, and shoots down highways with minimal fuss and with all the confidence, with just the right noises...
I know he loves open highways, and urban thrills. He loves the refinement of European cars. And like the best of the Euro cars, it is a base structure for building something fun.

As for Mr.Tada? Well, he is a clever guy too, but he was once an avid rallyist, with caged Lancers on dirt and tarmac, and haul tires in the trunk to get to autocrosses.

Knowing this, I start to sense that the Toyota 86/Subaru BRZ are his visions translated to his passions. And the Supra, so ready for the Nurburgring, or your local canyon roads, reflects him. Because that is what the Supra became, when designed by a guy who doesn’t really care for a sports car to be Grand Touring machines.

Their passions direct the projects and influences the hundreds of souls involved in creating and marketing a car.

Mr. Tamura is a man who prefers to take the fast speed route, with highs speed sweepers, over bridges and tunnels, comfortably, safely, dynamically. This, at supersonic speeds, in a stunningly sexy car. He enjoys his drives with velocity and refinement, and arrive with no stains on his pants, to enjoy that vintage wine at the nicest lodges when he got there.

Mr. Tada is a man who would take the longest detour, where roads carve incessantly though the mountains.

He does not mind changing flat tires along the way, and having bald tires upon arrival, 3 hours late with wine he bought along the detour
 His pleasure is clinging to the steering wheel and coaxing motions as laws of physics turn to upper limits of joy.

Who do you prefer to hang around?
That will decide which car perhaps.
Because the numbers and specs, will not clue you in on how to make that choice with these two cars.
And moreover, if you are arguing based on these numeric reasoning as values, you aren’t really a driving enthusiast.
Humm, that’s how I feel.

Mind you, both these cars are exemplary, alluring in their own way to make you forget about time, and wishing gas prices were lower.

I’ll share more if I have something to add or remember something. But for now, I’m
at a loss of words, with joy and emotion of happiness that these two cars are back where they belong, in a dealership waiting for us.

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240SX

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Why do people keeping calling it “A90”? BMW clearly shows it as J29
.
 

trackratZ

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Yikes that’s a lot of words. Quick, what’s the short summary.
Here's a summary for ya. He feels tons of 'refinement' in the Z, a great thing for everyone! This when compared to the 370Z or previous Zs, and even the Supra.

"Mr. Tamura is a man who prefers to take the fast speed route, with highs speed sweepers, over bridges and tunnels, comfortably, safely, dynamically. This, at supersonic speeds, in a stunningly sexy car. He enjoys his drives with velocity and refinement, and arrive with no stains on his pants, to enjoy that vintage wine at the nicest lodges when he got there.

Mr. Tada is a man who would take the longest detour, where roads carve incessantly though the mountains.

He does not mind changing flat tires along the way, and having bald tires upon arrival, 3 hours late with wine he bought along the detour
 His pleasure is clinging to the steering wheel and coaxing motions as laws of physics turn to upper limits of joy."
 

rocksandblues

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What is odd to me is the reviewer describes the car in terms that are opposite of the Z demographic?

I don't think Z when i think gentleman's weekend cruiser. Non track focused, soft compliant ride, etc. ?

Be interesting when they are actually on the street what real Z owners think and do. Will die hard Z guys flood the car with go fast suspension bits to stiffen and tighten the ride? Thats would go against the design and intent.

Or, since not track focused, will they get 90% cosmetic mods and be car show and Sat night cruise cars?
 

trackratZ

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I'm thinking Tamura's thinking was for the Z to feel and drive refined, not harsh. I read quite a bit about how JDM tunes suspension for touge runs with softer springs and works the sway bars and shock damping to adjust a car's behavior. A different approach from US and Euro tuning where stiffer springs are used mainly to handle sway, but harsher for the small bumps.

So, I'm good with the Z having 'softer' feel, ala Miata, around corners to start with. Customers can always upgrade to whatever setup they like, stiffer, flatter, etc. but that elusive perfect damping is hard to dial in for both track and street surfaces.
 

jdm-rhd

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so...to sum up

one drives like a european and the other is built in europe














i enjoyed his review :cool:
 
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