Moto Miwa reviews 2023 Nissan Z and makes comparison to A90 Supra

[Denver the Last Dinosaur]

^ More like the Nissan is an apple and the Supra is a lemon.

 

[FBD]

I'm thinking Tamura's thinking was for the Z to feel and drive refined, not harsh. I read quite a bit about how JDM tunes suspension for touge runs with softer springs and works the sway bars and shock damping to adjust a car's behavior. A different approach from US and Euro tuning where stiffer springs are used mainly to handle sway, but harsher for the small bumps.

So, I'm good with the Z having 'softer' feel, ala Miata, around corners to start with. Customers can always upgrade to whatever setup they like, stiffer, flatter, etc. but that elusive perfect damping is hard to dial in for both track and street surfaces.

Your comment really hits it on the head for me and clarifies a lot of things. I am coming to the conclusion that I don't think I've ever experience a 370Z, though I owned one...

Right from the dealership I had H&R coilovers installed, lowered, camber adjusted, Stillen intakes and big 3" pipes, Invidia exhaust. It was snappy and fast and crisp the the breathing up front was a game changer.

But when I went for a 1000KM road trip I was completely beaten up. This was a focused, somewhat harsh, precise track feel to the suspension. And over long distances your body really felt it. There was no give. When you were going around a real hanger of a corner it hung on with pure mechanical grip. But in a straight line pushing it one time around 170KM or more there was a bulge in the highway and the 370Z got lift and was airborne for a very scary second. And when it touched down at that speed it landed and almost swerved...but I let off the throttle and didn't do perform any aggressive over corrections and it straightened out. A Porsche would never do that and I am imagining that this is somewhat what Moto is getting at with his characterising the difference between the Z and the Supra. I love the focused track feel of the road, but it does beat you up and fatigue the hell out of you on a road trip. I've learned though that I can have both, I can have the supple sophistication and the track focused dampering...it's just called a Porsche 911 so I have to double the price of what I am paying for the Z and I can have a car that is both Z and Supra. Theoretically anyway.

 

[Raven1]

Your comment really hits it on the head for me and clarifies a lot of things. I am coming to the conclusion that I don't think I've ever experience a 370Z, though I owned one...

Right from the dealership I had H&R coilovers installed, lowered, camber adjusted, Stillen intakes and big 3" pipes, Invidia exhaust. It was snappy and fast and crisp the the breathing up front was a game changer.

But when I went for a 1000KM road trip I was completely beaten up. This was a focused, somewhat harsh, precise track feel to the suspension. And over long distances your body really felt it. There was no give. When you were going around a real hanger of a corner it hung on with pure mechanical grip. But in a straight line pushing it one time around 170KM or more there was a bulge in the highway and the 370Z got lift and was airborne for a very scary second. And when it touched down at that speed it landed and almost swerved...but I let off the throttle and didn't do perform any aggressive over corrections and it straightened out. A Porsche would never do that and I am imagining that this is somewhat what Moto is getting at with his characterising the difference between the Z and the Supra. I love the focused track feel of the road, but it does beat you up and fatigue the hell out of you on a road trip. I've learned though that I can have both, I can have the supple sophistication and the track focused dampering...it's just called a Porsche 911 so I have to double the price of what I am paying for the Z and I can have a car that is both Z and Supra. Theoretically anyway.

On my 2007 350z HR / Grand Touring I have taken it to 210KM (130MPH) several times and the car was very stable. I do have the car height so that the wheels flush with the fenders using BC Racing Type 'BR' (True Rear Coil Over) in the 'RS' configuration (Rubber Top Mounts for a more OEM Ride Characteristics) and at the time was running the factory sway bars but have since installed the Hotchkis Sway Bars front and rear.

I was in Arizona in Northern Phoenix and there was a very modified / boosted Honda wanting to race who was driving very aggressively in freeway traffic (it was late evening when traffic was light but still a lot of vehicles out) and seeing how dangerous he was being, having about 2 kilometer forward visibility with no vehicles in my lane, I put my foot in it to get away from the guy. The traffic congestion made it impossible for the kid to get to me. I got the distance I wanted to be rid of him, looking down I saw my speed was 210KM (130PMH) and it surprised the hell out of me. I let off the throttle and the car quickly slowed to 175KM (109MPH) and was back down to 144KM (90MPH) again by lifting off on the throttle. What surprised me most was how stable the car is at speed with the front end never getting light or experiencing lift off. The road isn't very smooth with cracks and transitioning from asphalt to aging cracked concrete to newer very smooth concrete at speed was very bumpy and also smooth. Still noted the car was very stable and never wanted to dart off either right or left. Again I lifted off the throttle and didn't use brakes shifting weight forward so maybe that would cause lift on the rebound if braking at that speed.

This car is my long trip car and love it for long drive from Arizona to Oregon, by way of AZ, thru Vegas, to Reno to Portland. Roads can be a bit rough for hours on end without beating me up too bad, LoL.

I'm curious to see if possibly a spring / spring rate adjustment would have mitigated your front end lift off to keep the front end of your 370z on the ground at speed.

 

[FBD]

On my 2007 350z HR / Grand Touring I have taken it to 210KM (130MPH) several times and the car was very stable. I do have the car height so that the wheels flush with the fenders using BC Racing Type 'BR' (True Rear Coil Over) in the 'RS' configuration (Rubber Top Mounts for a more OEM Ride Characteristics) and at the time was running the factory sway bars but have since installed the Hotchkis Sway Bars front and rear.

I was in Arizona in Northern Phoenix and there was a very modified / boosted Honda wanting to race who was driving very aggressively in freeway traffic (it was late evening when traffic was light but still a lot of vehicles out) and seeing how dangerous he was being, having about 2 kilometer forward visibility with no vehicles in my lane, I put my foot in it to get away from the guy. The traffic congestion made it impossible for the kid to get to me. I got the distance I wanted to be rid of him, looking down I saw my speed was 210KM (130PMH) and it surprised the hell out of me. I let off the throttle and the car quickly slowed to 175KM (109MPH) and was back down to 144KM (90MPH) again by lifting off on the throttle. What surprised me most was how stable the car is at speed with the front end never getting light or experiencing lift off. The road isn't very smooth with cracks and transitioning from asphalt to aging cracked concrete to newer very smooth concrete at speed was very bumpy and also smooth. Still noted the car was very stable and never wanted to dart off either right or left. Again I lifted off the throttle and didn't use brakes shifting weight forward so maybe that would cause lift on the rebound if braking at that speed.

This car is my long trip car and love it for long drive from Arizona to Oregon, by way of AZ, thru Vegas, to Reno to Portland. Roads can be a bit rough for hours on end without beating me up too bad, LoL.

I'm curious to see if possibly a spring / spring rate adjustment would have mitigated your front end lift off to keep the front end of your 370z on the ground at speed.

Interesting! No my car was very stable at high speeds. But there was a bulge in the highway in Canada from the surface freezing and thawing during our -30 c winters. And it was the back and the front that became airborne because I believe the coilovers were just too stiff and rigid. No give and no damping. A 911 would have soaked that up and continued on. Problem in Canada is our winters create some seriously uneven road imperfections bulging up out of nowhere on a seemingly smooth road surface. I was just trying to illustrate how choosing to go in one direction with my car made going on road trips and instances like this as massive trade offs. And my 370Z was as quick as this new one...

 

[Raven1]

Interesting! No my car was very stable at high speeds. But there was a bulge in the highway in Canada from the surface freezing and thawing during our -30 c winters. And it was the back and the front that became airborne because I believe the coilovers were just too stiff and rigid. No give and no damping. A 911 would have soaked that up and continued on. Problem in Canada is our winters create some seriously uneven road imperfections bulging up out of nowhere on a seemingly smooth road surface. I was just trying to illustrate how choosing to go in one direction with my car made going on road trips and instances like this as massive trade offs. And my 370Z was as quick as this new one...

WoW! Thank you for clarifying, that must have been shocking at first, glad you kept your presence of mind and regained control !! There's a so much to be said about the amazing suspension geometry of the 911 . . .

 

[DevonK]

This discussion reminds me of the recent comparative review of the twins in Autoblog. The different tunings and a few minor technical differences resulted in significant differences in ride quality - the tester basically found the Toyota version too stiff too live with, while the BRZ was OK on less than perfect roads.

 

[trackratZ]

Plus 911s are still on strut suspensions, it's all in the damping of the softer springs, that's key. Not simply fixed with stiffer springs. I have a close friend, tech that worked Eibach, their progressive springs worked wonders for both small bumps and bigger hits. Those smaller compressed springs help on droop situations when let's say, dropping in a pothole, not for compression per se. Still shock damping handled the main suspension behavior.

 

[indio22]

This discussion reminds me of the recent comparative review of the twins in Autoblog. The different tunings and a few minor technical differences resulted in significant differences in ride quality - the tester basically found the Toyota version too stiff too live with, while the BRZ was OK on less than perfect roads.

My first gen BRZ has been fine on long trips. Didn't know the GR86 is much different, will have to check one out. Either way though, I tend to like more road feel and connectedness. I'd like to see how the Z ride compares.