Dealers Already Plan on Marking Up Nissan Z Prices, Like This +$45K Markup For Z Proto Spec Edition

[takemorepills]

Y'all in the USA that don't like it should open your own dealership and run it in an ethical manner yourself. I have a feeling after a certain period of time (like after you get sick of lawsuits, bad reviews, crazy customers, crappy employees, etc...) you'd begin to think and operate more and more like an unethical dealership.

BTW, watching the basketball game and Nissan is running a commercial for a new service called "Nissan at Home". Supposedly you can buy a Nissan online and have it delivered.
So, GREAT! you may think, we can order a car directly from Nissan and bypass the shifty dealership! NOPE! A dealership, and it's ADMs are still involved. This commercial kind of makes me mad, if you see it, you'd get the impression that you are dealing with Nissan directly. But, you're not. It is just a program to connect you to a dealer. A dealer that is still free to do as they please. ADMs. Mandatory add-ons.

Just like y'all, I'd like to just order directly from Nissan. Show the price, I get to say what options and add-ons, we agree to it and that's that.

 

[West Aussie]

Y'all in the USA that don't like it should open your own dealership and run it in an ethical manner yourself. I have a feeling after a certain period of time (like after you get sick of lawsuits, bad reviews, crazy customers, crappy employees, etc...) you'd begin to think and operate more and more like an unethical dealership.

BTW, watching the basketball game and Nissan is running a commercial for a new service called "Nissan at Home". Supposedly you can buy a Nissan online and have it delivered.
So, GREAT! you may think, we can order a car directly from Nissan and bypass the shifty dealership! NOPE! A dealership, and it's ADMs are still involved. This commercial kind of makes me mad, if you see it, you'd get the impression that you are dealing with Nissan directly. But, you're not. It is just a program to connect you to a dealer. A dealer that is still free to do as they please. ADMs. Mandatory add-ons.

Just like y'all, I'd like to just order directly from Nissan. Show the price, I get to say what options and add-ons, we agree to it and that's that.

I understand what your saying…but I politely disagree.
why? Because in countries like Aus, mark ups are not legal…, yet car dealers still do more than fine. In fact where I live, dealers said that 2021 was their best year in terms of sales, mostly because people couldn’t go on holidays so they bought cars Instead.

ADMs from what I can tell …make the actually recommended retail price redundant, and hurt the brand and it’s promised price.

For me it’s a sign of a lazy dealer.

I appreciate your viewpoint, understand it, and know I won’t change your view.

But I just don’t agree

 

[trackratZ]

At this point in the game, we the consumer with all the excitement, just don't know what is the overall production volume Nissan will come up with for the 'first allocations' to dealers. It's been really quiet, I just hope by the time dealers are officially informed of the numbers each will get of the various trim level Zs, it will be enough to give some price competition, in a good way for the consumer, which in turn keep ADMs low enough. ADM will always be there in the dealer business model, especially when allocations are low, hence the heavy demand. Someone will always be willing to pay to own.

If Orr Nissan sticks to that $5K ADM max, I think at this point it's not a bad deal. I won't hold my breath until deliveries are actually made.

Will Nissan deliver enough volume on these first allocations? Remains to be seen. Future volume when online ordering is available I bet will lower ADMs. Right now it's a sellers', er dealers', market.

 

[siggy]

I understand what your saying…but I politely disagree.
why? Because in countries like Aus, mark ups are not legal…, yet car dealers still do more than fine. In fact where I live, dealers said that 2021 was their best year in terms of sales, mostly because people couldn’t go on holidays so they bought cars Instead.

ADMs from what I can tell …make the actually recommended retail price redundant, and hurt the brand and it’s promised price.

For me it’s a sign of a lazy dealer.

I appreciate your viewpoint, understand it, and know I won’t change your view.

But I just don’t agree

Prior to Covid how much did AUS dealerships discount vehicles?

 

[West Aussie]

Prior to Covid how much did AUS dealerships discount vehicles?

Hard to say really…it depends on dealer and brand.
We bought a Honda CRV just before covid took off…couldn’t get hardly any discount and they were changing models, only thing we did get was discounted coating, longer warranty.

This is quite common in Aus, prices rarely move much, unless its old stock they are trying to shift to make way for new models, and even then that usually comes from head office across the board.
Reason being, as mentioned brand sets the prices, and include what we call “Delivery Fee” in that price. This fee is the bonus for the salesman and dealership ( but again, inbuilt and the same regardless of which dealer you go to) ….so in reality if a dealer wants to sell a car cheaper than the dealer down the road then this is the only place they can discount the amount the car sells.
For instance, if the dealer delivery was $5000 for a Z, every dealer regardless would get the same sales bonus per car.…if however a particular dealership wants to sell more cars than their competitor in another town and sell the car $2k cheaper, then it is the dealer and sales person that takes the hit.

This is why they are more open to giving “fee stuff” to make it more enticing (think car mats, longer Rego) rather than sell the car cheaper. It’s also why what each dealer can offer for a trade in also becomes important …although in this market everyone is selling privately to maximise their funds.

In short if they want to sell cheaper they can…but it comes from their commission if thy do, and that is quite limited

 

[takemorepills]

Hard to say really…it depends on dealer and brand.
We bought a Honda CRV just before covid took off…couldn’t get hardly any discount and they were changing models, only thing we did get was discounted coating, longer warranty.

This is quite common in Aus, prices rarely move much, unless its old stock they are trying to shift to make way for new models, and even then that usually comes from head office across the board.
Reason being, as mentioned brand sets the prices, and include what we call “Delivery Fee” in that price. This fee is the bonus for the salesman and dealership ( but again, inbuilt and the same regardless of which dealer you go to) ….so in reality if a dealer wants to sell a car cheaper than the dealer down the road then this is the only place they can discount the amount the car sells.
For instance, if the dealer delivery was $5000 for a Z, every dealer regardless would get the same sales bonus per car.…if however a particular dealership wants to sell more cars than their competitor in another town and sell the car $2k cheaper, then it is the dealer and sales person that takes the hit.

This is why they are more open to giving “fee stuff” to make it more enticing (think car mats, longer Rego) rather than sell the car cheaper. It’s also why what each dealer can offer for a trade in also becomes important …although in this market everyone is selling privately to maximise their funds.

In short if they want to sell cheaper they can…but it comes from their commission if thy do, and that is quite limited

I don't know if siggy is trying to make a point, but his question leads into something I was going to bring up before..... the downside of fixed pricing.

Right now the free market seems to suck, because of inflation and ADMs...
But we Americans have enjoyed decades of being able to negotiate around invoice. Of course, one needs to be savvy enough to educate themselves, prepare and be willing to negotiate, but those who do this could save serious amounts of cash.

True, the dealership will still be predatory to less savvy customers, but as a customer we definitely could get good deals.

Fixed price models seem "fair" and I agree. But.... In a fixed price model, how is it determined who gets a vehicle and who doesn't?

 

[siggy]

I don't know if siggy is trying to make a point, but his question leads into something I was going to bring up before..... the downside of fixed pricing.

Right now the free market seems to suck, because of inflation and ADMs...
But we Americans have enjoyed decades of being able to negotiate around invoice. Of course, one needs to be savvy enough to educate themselves, prepare and be willing to negotiate, but those who do this could save serious amounts of cash.

True, the dealership will still be predatory to less savvy customers, but as a customer we definitely could get good deals.

Fixed price models seem "fair" and I agree. But.... In a fixed price model, how is it determined who gets a vehicle and who doesn't?

Prior to Covid it was not uncommon to get 20% off GM vehicles including Corvettes. 7% under INVOICE for Wranglers and Gladiators, no problemo.

West Aussie, not intended to be a personal matter, but from my limited knowledge of Australia, it does not seem to be a vehicle enthusiast friendly country. Just basing this on limited discussions with colleagues who live or lived in Australia. However, I could be wrong and maybe there is some bias in there.

For the time being patience is key. There is no perfect system in any country or all countries would operate the same. I do agree with the negatives in the US, but these things will work themselves out. I don’t think ADMs are unethical. However, it’s very poor business for dealerships to state they won’t charge ADMs upon ordering, but later change their minds when the vehicle arrives. A lot of that happening right now and dealerships are getting away with it. BUT when things settle down, those same customers may shop elsewhere…

 

[West Aussie]

I don't know if siggy is trying to make a point, but his question leads into something I was going to bring up before..... the downside of fixed pricing.

Right now the free market seems to suck, because of inflation and ADMs...
But we Americans have enjoyed decades of being able to negotiate around invoice. Of course, one needs to be savvy enough to educate themselves, prepare and be willing to negotiate, but those who do this could save serious amounts of cash.

True, the dealership will still be predatory to less savvy customers, but as a customer we definitely could get good deals.

Fixed price models seem "fair" and I agree. But.... In a fixed price model, how is it determined who gets a vehicle and who doesn't?

It’s determined based on first come first served

 

[West Aussie]

Prior to Covid it was not uncommon to get 20% off GM vehicles including Corvettes. 7% under INVOICE for Wranglers and Gladiators, no problemo.

West Aussie, not intended to be a personal matter, but from my limited knowledge of Australia, it does not seem to be a vehicle enthusiast friendly country. Just basing this on limited discussions with colleagues who live or lived in Australia. However, I could be wrong and maybe there is some bias in there.

For the time being patience is key. There is no perfect system in any country or all countries would operate the same. I do agree with the negatives in the US, but these things will work themselves out. I don’t think ADMs are unethical. However, it’s very poor business for dealerships to state they won’t charge ADMs upon ordering, but later change their minds when the vehicle arrives. A lot of that happening right now and dealerships are getting away with it. BUT when things settle down, those same customers may shop elsewhere…

I agree, your model may be better when there is a glut in the market and dealers want to sell.
Im just stating I don’t think exorbitant ADMs are good business for either buyer or the brand.
I also think this prices out many people …meaning only the wealthy can buy a car that was intended to be midrange.
A set price insures you are always buying a Porsche at a Porsche price, a Toyota at a Toyota price..etc etc.

I would definitely not call the Aus market an unfriendly one…or hard to navigate…and I find due to the “fairness” of the pricing the dealers will bend over backwards for you…otherwise they risk loosing your sale.

I also disagree with us not being a motor enthusiast country. My husband use to own a Lotus Esprit. Heaps of clubs, car rally’s, charity runs etc. of course there is not as many as the US, because well…our population is less than one tenth of yours, but there are most certainly enthusiast clubs, opportunities for track racing, pretty much anything you guys have.

I’m not saying our system is the best all the time, but its certainly better than paying outrageous prices just because the dealer can get it.
I personally don’t think Aussies would buy it if dealers tried this here, after having our system for so long.

 

[bboypuertoroc]

ADMs are bullshit. The end.

 

[takemorepills]

It’s determined based on first come first served

The problem with that is you'd have speculators buying to flip. People are doing that right now with the Bronco and C8 Corvette. I don't think there's any law preventing that, is there?

Then you need even more laws to deal with those people, usually by way of limiting how many cars an individual could sell in one year before needing a dealer license.

 

[siggy]

I agree, your model may be better when there is a glut in the market and dealers want to sell.
Im just stating I don’t think exorbitant ADMs are good business for either buyer or the brand.
I also think this prices out many people …meaning only the wearily can buy a car that was intended to be midrange.
A set price insures you are always buying a Porsche at a Porsche price, a Toyota at a Toyota price..etc etc.

I would definitely not call the Aus market an unfriendly one…or hard to navigate…and I find due to the “fairness” of the pricing the dealers will bend over backwards for you…otherwise they risk loosing your sale.

I also disagree with us not being a motor enthusiast country. My husband use to own a Lotus Esprit. Heaps of clubs, car rally’s, charity runs etc. of course there is not as many as the US, because well…our population is less than one tenth of yours, but there are most certainly enthusiast clubs, opportunities for track racing, pretty much anything you guys have.

I’m not saying our system is the best all the time, but its certainly better than paying outrageous prices just because the dealer can get it.
I personally don’t think Aussies would buy it if dealers tried this here, after having our system for so long.

Sorry I was not clear in my statement. My understanding is in Australia it is quite costly to own a “sports” car. Just financially speaking. I’ve heard this from Australian natives and even your own admission in other posts. Not commenting on the enthusiasm or interest in cars. Purely commenting on the financial side of things. Again, I could be completely wrong and misinterpreting all of this.

 

[West Aussie]

The problem with that is you'd have speculators buying to flip. People are doing that right now with the Bronco and C8 Corvette. I don't think there's any law preventing that, is there?

Then you need even more laws to deal with those people, usually by way of limiting how many cars an individual could sell in one year before needing a dealer license.

It just does not happen. Because prices are set they lose money as soon as they leave the car yard. I am not aware of anyone buying a car to flip it. People would need to have quite a bit of money and take a huge risk to do that as well. Broadly speaking those that have the money to flip a car don’t need the money….it’s not like a house that you buy renovate and move on …unless it’s second hand which needs work, which negates this discussion anyway.

maybe it happens, but if it does it would be news to me, and a very very minor impact on how sales work here.

 

[West Aussie]

Sorry I was not clear in my statement. My understanding is in Australia it is quite costly to own a “sports” car. Just financially speaking. I’ve heard this from Australian natives and even your own admission in other posts. Not commenting on the enthusiasm or interest in cars. Purely commenting on the financial side of things. Again, I could be completely wrong and misinterpreting all of this.

It’s not costly to own a sports car per say…our cars are more costly across the board than yours, be it a i20 or a Corvette
So you guys are looking at a price tag of 40 we are looking closer to 70-80k for a Z….so yes we are much more expensive to buy a car, but it’s not unique to one brand, or type and it’s certainly has nothing to do with dealer mark ups.

There are many factors in our costs, for instance our dollar…on conversion your priced Z comes up to around $54k so already up 14k

But then there is our average rate of pay which is $89k per annum in Aus where research tells me the average in the US is $54k
Minimum wage in Aus is just over $20.an hour, in the US just under $8 …so to me the price difference reflects the wage situation in each country.

Most cars come with long warranties and set priced services these days. so upkeep is no worse.

rego is around $1000 per year as is insurance depending on cost of the car ( can be higher or lower)
liscence is around $60 a year
if a car costs more than 68k the government charges you an extra 33% for every dollar more as a “luxury car tax”
the cheapest speeding fine in WA is $100, and goes up to $1200. If you run a red light …$300, and I know our fines are much cheaper than the bigger states like NSW where it can be double to triple of ours.
Stamp duty is also charged on every car sold, for a car that is 45k the added tax is $1350 and then for every $100 you pay $5 more…again regardless on car type or brand or even if buying second hand or new.

so looking at this you are correct we are not a car friendly nation in terms of cost…however it is not the dealer or the cost of the car initially that makes it so..as when you take into consideration cost of living, and average wage and dollar conversion it works out to be about right really.
Upkeep with a bigger drive to offer set price servicing and longer warranties is also not too bad

However government charges and taxes is what is completely out of whack to you guys…I mean insurance would be higher if you take it to the track, if you sell a car then the new owner pays stamp duty…even a drivers test is $109.

so as we can see it is not the car dealer or brands that make Aus a unfriendly nation for cars…but the government.
although if you import a car that is older than 40 years….you can do so tax free, as it’s considered a antique.

 

[White_turbo]

It just does not happen. Because prices are set they lose money as soon as they leave the car yard. I am not aware of anyone buying a car to flip it. People would need to have quite a bit of money and take a huge risk to do that as well. Broadly speaking those that have the money to flip a car don’t need the money….

Just speaking about the US, car flipping is very common. Of course you have to pick the right car to have any success. Virtually every Porsche GT cars here are bought by people who eventually sell them shortly for a profit. There are only a minority of them that actually drive them for a few years. It does have a huge impact on both the new and used value of these cars. Dealers have no trouble selling them above MSRP and the cars tend not to depreciate in the used market.