(Hagerty) How fast is the new $50k Nissan Z? — New Z vs Supra vs Mustang Mach-1

[Denver the Last Dinosaur]

As to people pushing prices up in the US…I would disagree …I would say that is the dealers sheer greed that does that.
No matter the demand in Aus and Canada the price will be the same…so don’t go blaming the consumer Denver

Because Australia and Canada have more sensible rules.

The basic rule of sales is that they price their goods/services at whatever they believe consumer is willing to pay. Increasing the price on popular and/or difficult to get goods/services always happens (it's stupidly called "supply and demand", but is really just pure greed), but usually more subtly than American car salesman do it.

 

[bboypuertoroc]

Whilst I understand your logic here, the thing I’m not getting is that before the price everyone couldn’t wait for the reviews…so excited
There are now plenty of reviews out, and the only one you guys are latching onto is the one bad one out of the tens or twenties of good ones….all because it’s 4.5k more that what you expected
So before the price you were willing to trust the reviews….now they must be all in it for themselves
Come on guys, that’s just silly

Ugh.

It's that review COMBINED with the price COMBINED with the competition. For that price why the hell are they putting shit tires on the car? The other two come with fantastic tires included. It's not just $4.5k more, it's gonna end up $15k+more than what people were expecting. If you think people are gonna leave the dealership paying MSRP and not a dime more you're smoking crack. In that price range there's better performing cars, both new and used.

Personally I wouldn't buy a car just based off of reviews. Paying $30k or more for something warrants me making sure it's worth it on my own.

 

[DevonK]

Not really…it comes down to personal preference a great deal of the time…like most things in life
I wouldn’t touch a BRZ or 86 …but that’s just me maybe

There is more to the dispute here than solely personal preferences. Savagegeese loved the GR86 so much they bought one, they aren't biased against it any more than Camissa. They do have a fundamental disagreement with Camissa about the Z's driving characteristics - how it behaves under certain conditions.

Camissa describes the car as having no steering feedback up to the point of snap oversteer when the traction limit is exceeded, with a spin nearly inevitable as a result; Savagegeese described the car as providing the feedback needed to anticipate oncoming oversteer and then modulate it effectively as it comes on more gradually. Hands up - who is going to "prefer" the car with the characteristics Jason describes?

GIven identical conditions, both of these descriptions can't be accurate. A pro racing team would have the monitoring equipment needed (steering force and angle sensors, G-force meter, etc.) to objectively determine which is the more accurate account, and to compare the car in this respect to others like the Supra.

 

[West Aussie]

Ugh.

It's that review COMBINED with the price COMBINED with the competition. For that price why the hell are they putting shit tires on the car? The other two come with fantastic tires included. It's not just $4.5k more, it's gonna end up $15k+more than what people were expecting. If you think people are gonna leave the dealership paying MSRP and not a dime more you're smoking crack. In that price range there's better performing cars, both new and used.

Personally I wouldn't buy a car just based off of reviews. Paying $30k or more for something warrants me making sure it's worth it on my own.

But surely the dealer mark up is not Nissans fault, I mean if your comparing you have to compare what the mark up will be in both cars…to be honest not that familiar with dealer mark ups, we don’t have them….cars cost the same no matter what dealer you get them from, so you only pay what each manufacturer sets which means the Nissan is quite a bit cheaper than the Toyota

Again everyone’s different, people will buy a million dollar house off plans without seeing anything but pictures, just because you wouldn’t buy without trying doesn’t mean no one would

 

[West Aussie]

There is more to the dispute here than solely personal preferences. Savagegeese loved the GR86 so much they bought one, they aren't biased against it any more than Camissa. They do have a fundamental disagreement with Camissa about the Z's driving characteristics - how it behaves under certain conditions.

Camissa describes the car as having no steering feedback up to the point of snap oversteer when the traction limit is exceeded, with a spin nearly inevitable as a result; Savagegeese described the car as providing the feedback needed to anticipate oncoming oversteer and then modulate it effectively as it comes on more gradually. Hands up - who is going to "prefer" the car with the characteristics Jason describes?

GIven identical conditions, both of these descriptions can't be accurate. A pro racing team would have the monitoring equipment needed (steering force and angle sensors, G-force meter, etc.) to objectively determine which is the more accurate account, and to compare the car in this respect to others like the Supra.

But you just proved my point
“Savagegeese loved the GR86 so much they bought one”
I personally would not touch them for a number of reasons, but mostly because of personal choice.

Both descriptions can be true, because all conditions are not the same….the biggest factor is different drivers and maybe one understood the car better, indeed even in duel reviews one person comments differently than the other sometimes

I’ll happily buy the car, as I said I’m not racing it.

To be honest I don’t know why people are still here on the forum if they don’t like the car or the price, why bother to stay and bag something, it’s not going to change the price, it’s not going to change the car….you either like it and want one or you don’t

 

[takemorepills]

For those disappointed by the Z's performance, Nissan made it VERY clear from the get-go that this Z was more about being what the Z has always been about, not about it beating the world.

If it were a world-beater, or even a BMW beater, that would be a first. The Z cars have always played in the upper 90% of sporty GT cars. They never reigned as king.

More to the point, Nissan is targeting a broad demographic here, one that leans heavily into nostalgia. The Z car nose and ZX tail lights is not because Nissan ran out of design ideas, it's because Nissan wants to market to those of us feeling nostalgic about our experiences with the Z, some going back 50 years. Nissan was very clear about this. This car is mission accomplished. It follows the typical arc of the Z through the years. And, it just so happens to have enough power and capability to make those of us looking for a "return to Z" way more than happy. I can't wait to take a road trip through the mountains of the west coast with a twin turbocharged JDM car shrugging off altitude and mountain passes with ease.

I graduated high school in 1994, I lusted after the 300ZX Twin Turbo and never had the means to acquire one as a teenager. I have been waiting for a long time for another Twin Turbo Z. That has been stuck in my head.

Just like my 70 year old friends miss their Mustang or panel van, I want my Twin Turbo JDM back, I feel lucky Nissan went for it one more time while I can afford one. And it is 0.1 and 1mph behind the admittedly over-performing BMW Supra? I can't believe some of y'all are calling for the Performance Z to be nearly $10K cheaper than the BMW for THAT performance deficit.

Do me a favor, don't buy the Z. Take the pressure off of it for those of us who want it for more than the stats and metrics. Go buy a Camaro, Mustang, 240i.... all great cars. Good luck eating Tesla humble pie after saying you couldn't tolerate that a Z can only trap 116 to the Supra's 117 when a Tesla fucks you up with a 155 trap.

 

[West Aussie]

For those disappointed by the Z's performance, Nissan made it VERY clear from the get-go that this Z was more about being what the Z has always been about, not about it beating the world.

If it were a world-beater, or even a BMW beater, that would be a first. The Z cars have always played in the upper 90% of sporty GT cars. They never reigned as king.

More to the point, Nissan is targeting a broad demographic here, one that leans heavily into nostalgia. The Z car nose and ZX tail lights is not because Nissan ran out of design ideas, it's because Nissan wants to market to those of us feeling nostalgic about our experiences with the Z, some going back 50 years. Nissan was very clear about this. This car is mission accomplished. It follows the typical arc of the Z through the years. And, it just so happens to have enough power and capability to make those of us looking for a "return to Z" way more than happy. I can't wait to take a road trip through the mountains of the west coast with a twin turbocharged JDM car shrugging off altitude and mountain passes with ease.

I graduated high school in 1994, I lusted after the 300ZX Twin Turbo and never had the means to acquire one as a teenager. I have been waiting for a long time for another Twin Turbo Z. That has been stuck in my head.

Just like my 70 year old friends miss their Mustang or panel van, I want my Twin Turbo JDM back, I feel lucky Nissan went for it one more time while I can afford one. And it is 0.1 and 1mph behind the admittedly over-performing BMW Supra? I can't believe some of y'all are calling for the Performance Z to be nearly $10K cheaper than the BMW for THAT performance deficit.

Do me a favor, don't buy the Z. Take the pressure off of it for those of us who want it for more than the stats and metrics. Go buy a Camaro, Mustang, 240i.... all great cars. Good luck eating Tesla humble pie after saying you couldn't tolerate that a Z can only trap 116 to the Supra's 117 when a Tesla fucks you up with a 155 trap.

Well said

The only frustraltion I have at this point is the waiting game ?

 

[Loco38SUP]

For those disappointed by the Z's performance, Nissan made it VERY clear from the get-go that this Z was more about being what the Z has always been about, not about it beating the world.

If it were a world-beater, or even a BMW beater, that would be a first. The Z cars have always played in the upper 90% of sporty GT cars. They never reigned as king.

More to the point, Nissan is targeting a broad demographic here, one that leans heavily into nostalgia. The Z car nose and ZX tail lights is not because Nissan ran out of design ideas, it's because Nissan wants to market to those of us feeling nostalgic about our experiences with the Z, some going back 50 years. Nissan was very clear about this. This car is mission accomplished. It follows the typical arc of the Z through the years. And, it just so happens to have enough power and capability to make those of us looking for a "return to Z" way more than happy. I can't wait to take a road trip through the mountains of the west coast with a twin turbocharged JDM car shrugging off altitude and mountain passes with ease.

I graduated high school in 1994, I lusted after the 300ZX Twin Turbo and never had the means to acquire one as a teenager. I have been waiting for a long time for another Twin Turbo Z. That has been stuck in my head.

Just like my 70 year old friends miss their Mustang or panel van, I want my Twin Turbo JDM back, I feel lucky Nissan went for it one more time while I can afford one. And it is 0.1 and 1mph behind the admittedly over-performing BMW Supra? I can't believe some of y'all are calling for the Performance Z to be nearly $10K cheaper than the BMW for THAT performance deficit.

Do me a favor, don't buy the Z. Take the pressure off of it for those of us who want it for more than the stats and metrics. Go buy a Camaro, Mustang, 240i.... all great cars. Good luck eating Tesla humble pie after saying you couldn't tolerate that a Z can only trap 116 to the Supra's 117 when a Tesla fucks you up with a 155 trap.

The Tesla Plaid is $125K…we’re throwing out Tesla insults now…LMAO.

-RJM

 

[takemorepills]

Well said

The only frustraltion I have at this point is the waiting game ?

China's fault.

China dropped a COVID bomb on the world.

And now, with their "zero-COVID" policy of locking down major cities and grinding commerce to a halt, they have single-handedly derailed international commerce, without taking any blame for their intentional actions.

Even though the Z likely uses very little Chinese content, the entire industry is hamstrung by shipping resources being stuck in Chinese waters.

 

[bboypuertoroc]

Nissan made it VERY clear from the get-go that this Z was more about being what the Z has always been about...

It's always been about being an affordable RWD sports car that everyone can enjoy. It's no longer that, unless people think a $40-50k (let's be real, that's more like $50-60k) car is affordable for everyone.

 

[takemorepills]

It's always been about being an affordable RWD sports car that everyone can enjoy. It's no longer that, unless people think a $40-50k (let's be real, that's more like $50-60k) car is affordable for everyone.

This I agree with.

But, remember, "back in the day" it was far more common to see average people driving sporty cars. Now, sporty cars sell in much lower numbers, many have been discontinued. Going back to the 80's you'd see much more volume sales of sporty cars and much more competition driving the prices down across the board. Now the CUVs are the "good deals" these days...

I consider the new Z "affordable". My neighbor has a $70k Ford F-150, getting a slightly used 370Z and boosting it would be way more than $55K total, and would have constant issues.

 

[siggy]

Even though the Z likely uses very little Chinese content, the entire industry is hamstrung by shipping resources being stuck in Chinese waters.

What makes you say this? I know of no single major (profitable) company that doesn’t rely on China to some significant degree.

 

[takemorepills]

What makes you say this? I know of no single major (profitable) company that doesn’t rely on China to some significant degree.

What does it matter? My point is that the China "zero-COVID" lockdowns have log-jammed resources for the entire world. The dump in Everett has to curtail operations because they can't get enough cargo containers to send off the trash. Because container ships are stuck at anchor.

And, as for how much Chinese content a Z would have, I can only go by where the parts in my Q60 and my wife's 2020 Toyota Corolla for reference. Surprisingly very little. Some of the audio system in my Q60 is from China, that's about it. Almost every part on my wife's Japan VIN Toyota is Japanese, accessories are USA, and audio system is Malaysia.

Doesn't matter when a signifigant number of the world's cargo ships are stuck at anchor in China. They can't go from Malaysia to Japan, et al. until they can complete their China passage.

 

[DevonK]

To be honest I don’t know why people are still here on the forum if they don’t like the car or the price, why bother to stay and bag something, it’s not going to change the price, it’s not going to change the car….you either like it and want one or you don’t

Just to be clear, I am not bagging the car, just making the point that there are differences in how the car's behaviour at the limit is being described which can only be fully clarified by more objective testing methods. But I think the best we can hope for is that a less confused picture will emerge when we get experienced race hands like Randy Pobst weighing in.

 

[LZ23]

It's always been about being an affordable RWD sports car that everyone can enjoy. It's no longer that, unless people think a $40-50k (let's be real, that's more like $50-60k) car is affordable for everyone.

The Z car was never an afffordable sports car.I remember looking at a new in 1990 300ZX and it was 53,000 dollars in Canada.When I bought my 2003 350Z Performance in Nov. 2002 it was 44,500 MSRP.That 1990 Z car in todays dollars with inflation would work out to 72,000 US dollars.If I remember right it had a MSRP of 33,000 .So the new Z still represents very good value for the dollar.