General Ask a Nissan Salesman Thread

[West Aussie]

I appreciate your posts broadly, but I think you’re wrong here. I think there is a HUGE difference in providing a rational explanation versus a defense. Our OP has primarily if not entirely done the one and not the other. Also, ending a post with “full stop” is a bit much. As if there is nothing else to be said on the matter. Anyway, I see no hypocrisy in the OP.

I think the OP provides very valuable insight on this forum and unfair characterizations could diminish his willingness to provide that insight, which would be unfortunate.

Well that’s what makes life interesting…we all have the right to our opinion.
However I feel that telling everyone he has to charge 5k above retail when other dealers are not is a cop out

He justified it by saying

“Now "justifying" a market adjustment is simple supply and demand WITHIN REASON. For starters I have to say I by no means support the 15k markup average to a highest of 30k mark up I've heard of on these cars, that is just stealing. Now for a justifiable adjustment; before the shortage we used to sell 150-250 new cars a month. At an average of 200 cars making lets say 2k on each car thats 400,000 in profits. Now in the current market we sold 62 last month and at the same rate thats only 124,000. Which would result in a loss of 69% (nice) and that's how people get laid off real fast. So to make up the loss in income due to supply shortages a mark up on the product is required to keep pace.”

In other words, the 5k mark up is justified because of demand, and is trying to sell that mark up as acceptable because it’s not 15-20k like other dealers….

He then goes on to say

“I understand what your saying. Marking up a vehicle just because you can isn't right.”

The two statements are in opposition with each other, and therefore by definition hypocritical, so my statement is correct

I’ve Already said on a number of occasions I don’t understand the need for mark ups…the rest of the world doesn't either, and they have car shortages just as the US does, making contradictory statements doesn’t help get your message accross.

 

[siggy]

I appreciate your posts broadly, but I think you’re wrong here. I think there is a HUGE difference in providing a rational explanation versus a defense. Our OP has primarily if not entirely done the one and not the other. Also, ending a post with “full stop” is a bit much. As if there is nothing else to be said on the matter. Anyway, I see no hypocrisy in the OP.

I think the OP provides very valuable insight on this forum and unfair characterizations could diminish his willingness to provide that insight, which would be unfortunate.

Can you share the rational explanation for charging an ADM? OP literally states you shouldn’t charge an ADM just because you can. Charging an ADM is exactly that…because you can. Before this mess we’re in, there really were no ADM’s outside of limited/specialty cars. Today there are ADM’s on CRV’s. Why? Because they can. It’s not so dealers can stay in business. They’ve been having record profits…

OP needs to be careful of his role as a Nissan salesman versus just being an enthusiast. Clearly he’s an enthusiast since he owns a Z already (or he just got a great deal through his employer). Contradicting oneself is not a good look.

 

[H2O_Doc]

I think the error in much of the discussion is talking at all about justification. Dealerships need no justification for setting a price for a market good. This is a car, not pediatric cancer treatments. There is a manufacturer SUGGESTED retail price, but unless there is a legally binding agreement between the manufacturer and dealership I see no reason why the dealership shouldn’t be allowed to set a price and let the market decide if it’s acceptable. Acceptable and not justified. And I will point out that I’m no free market worshiper, I do believe in market regulation but this isn’t the sort of issue where I think that’s appropriate. This is an example where I think the market can get it right and I hate that it will likely delay my purchase.

I don’t like it and I won’t pay above MSRP….actually I’ve only ever paid well below MSRP, but I’ve never felt the need to justify that to the dealership. I did, however, have my reasons.

Despite what people might write, what we are talking about are reasons and not justifications. There is no need for a justification. Buy it at the offering price or don’t.

 

[takemorepills]

Those who enjoy the benefit of pricing protections in their country should just enjoy the fact that the country they live in is providing a benefit they appreciate. No need to point out how a different country does things differently.

I totally hate a bunch of things in the USA, including price gouging, not just in vehicles but real estate is ridiculously overpriced more so than vehicles. But, I have no intentions of packing my bags and leaving the USA. You gotta work with what you're given, and I'd rather live here than those countries with different rules.

 

[SS727Z]

I think the error in much of the discussion is talking at all about justification. Dealerships need no justification for setting a price for a market good. This is a car, not pediatric cancer treatments. There is a manufacturer SUGGESTED retail price, but unless there is a legally binding agreement between the manufacturer and dealership I see no reason why the dealership shouldn’t be allowed to set a price and let the market decide if it’s acceptable. Acceptable and not justified. And I will point out that I’m no free market worshiper, I do believe in market regulation but this isn’t the sort of issue where I think that’s appropriate. This is an example where I think the market can get it right and I hate that it will likely delay my purchase.

I don’t like it and I won’t pay above MSRP….actually I’ve only ever paid well below MSRP, but I’ve never felt the need to justify that to the dealership. I did, however, have my reasons.

Despite what people might write, what we are talking about are reasons and not justifications. There is no need for a justification. Buy it at the offering price or don’t.

Unfortunately, you are completely correct. Call it greed, call it opportunistic... in the end it’s a business and they’re gonna squeeze as much out of us as they can without appearing excessive.

Outside of youtubers, I can’t imagine anyone seeing the value of purchasing one of these at 50-60k though. I think it will quickly level out, as long as production is high enough. 5k markup somehow seems reasonable in todays market where people can finance a car for 84 months.

 

[takemorepills]

Unfortunately, you are completely correct. Call it greed, call it opportunistic... in the end it’s a business and they’re gonna squeeze as much out of us as they can without appearing excessive.

Outside of youtubers, I can’t imagine anyone seeing the value of purchasing one of these at 50-60k though. I think it will quickly level out, as long as production is high enough. 5k markup somehow seems reasonable in todays market where people can finance a car for 84 months.

I think the wheels are about to fall off the markets in USA.

I just got a "for sale" notice on my neighbors house. $1.18M, and according to Redfin, with the current interest rates and 20% down a prospective buyer would still have a $5600/mo payment. Holy hell!
I think lot's of people have been "rationalizing" high vehicle prices because they likely feel the ridiculous appreciation of their real estate, plus some may take a HELOC, makes high vehicle prices easier to justify. However, the Feds have increased mortgage rates and that will definitely set one room of the party on fire. I hope some correction is heading in.
I don't understand how my neighbors keep buying new vehicles, even though their older vehicles looked fine and were less than a few years old.
I know it's not leasing, lease rates are worse than buying these days. I suspect they leveraged HELOC.

Just hope this madhouse burns down soon!

 

[Trackaholic]

I live in CA and bought my GT350 from a Ford dealer in Tulsa, OK. I did pay a $2500 ADM, but had decided that, for me, a $5000 ADM was still a good value. Dealers in CA were asking $25,000 ADM, even for years after the release of the car, and I wasn’t ready to wait ages for prices to come down, so in the end I guess I was an enabler and part of the problem. But am still happy with the price I paid.

The dealership in OK was great to work with; we did all the ordering over the phone and I gave them a $5000 deposit when the order went through. When the car was ready I flew out with my dad and the salesman picked us up at the airport and we completed the sale and had a fun road trip home.

I didn’t pay any taxes when purchasing, but did pay all that to CA when registering the car. That was about $7000 (mostly due to my ~10% local tax rate).

in the end the key for me was establishing a price I was comfortable with and sticking to that.

interestingly, I had a similar experience when the 350Z came out. I was preordering that car as well, and dealers wanted $10,000 ADM (this was early 2002 probably). I ended up finding a dealer back in my home town who was selling for MSRP. Purchased from them and that was was probably the best overall car I’ve ever had. Kept it for 200,000 miles and sold it after getting the GT350.

While I did not mind spending a little ADM on the GT350, I don’t think I would be willing to do that on the new Z. I will be waiting for the hype to die and market to settle. Much will depend on how well Nissan did with the car. Hopefully they’ve tuned it to be a bit more playful than past versions, but overall I think this Z will be very good and am looking forward to seeing some reviews.

-T

 

[FBD]

I think the error in much of the discussion is talking at all about justification. Dealerships need no justification for setting a price for a market good. This is a car, not pediatric cancer treatments. There is a manufacturer SUGGESTED retail price, but unless there is a legally binding agreement between the manufacturer and dealership I see no reason why the dealership shouldn’t be allowed to set a price and let the market decide if it’s acceptable. Acceptable and not justified. And I will point out that I’m no free market worshiper, I do believe in market regulation but this isn’t the sort of issue where I think that’s appropriate. This is an example where I think the market can get it right and I hate that it will likely delay my purchase.

I don’t like it and I won’t pay above MSRP….actually I’ve only ever paid well below MSRP, but I’ve never felt the need to justify that to the dealership. I did, however, have my reasons.

Despite what people might write, what we are talking about are reasons and not justifications. There is no need for a justification. Buy it at the offering price or don’t.

The ADM's are pure greed. And any salesman masking as an enthusiast supporting ADM's are complicit in that greed. The real rub is stealerships will have the upper hand now because of short supply. But once the supply chain and the SIM shortage ends and starts flowing, anyone who extorted customers "just because they could" will reap the consequences of their behaviour. No one will return to a sales person who took advantage of them in a pandemic economy.

And yes...I get the capitalist freedom argument. It is actually why Canada has prevented ADM's. The market, if left to itself, will do exactly what it is doing to all of you in the US in this current use case of ADM's. It's just wrong.

 

[Cmtremor]

The ADM's are pure greed. And any salesman masking as an enthusiast supporting ADM's are complicit in that greed. The real rub is stealerships will have the upper hand now because of short supply. But once the supply chain and the SIM shortage ends and starts flowing, anyone who extorted customers "just because they could" will reap the consequences of their behaviour. No one will return to a sales person who took advantage of them in a pandemic economy.

And yes...I get the capitalist freedom argument. It is actually why Canada has prevented ADM's. The market, if left to itself, will do exactly what it is doing to all of you in the US in this current use case of ADM's. It's just wrong.

i agree but canada has its own issues. currently dealers are getting around this in canada by allowing the manager to drive the truck a few hundred or thousand K and selling the truck as used. look at all the New frontiers in ontario and most are being sold with 900-1700km on them to get around the laws. they even send the truck to another sister dealer to be sold on their lot as used for a higher mark up.

 

[LeatherWings]

i agree but canada has its own issues. currently dealers are getting around this in canada by allowing the manager to drive the truck a few hundred or thousand K and selling the truck as used. look at all the New frontiers in ontario and most are being sold with 900-1700km on them to get around the laws. they even send the truck to another sister dealer to be sold on their lot as used for a higher mark up.

I don't know how the law works with this kinda stuff, especially in Canada, but to me that sounds a lot like straight-up FRAUD.

 

[FBD]

i agree but canada has its own issues. currently dealers are getting around this in canada by allowing the manager to drive the truck a few hundred or thousand K and selling the truck as used. look at all the New frontiers in ontario and most are being sold with 900-1700km on them to get around the laws. they even send the truck to another sister dealer to be sold on their lot as used for a higher mark up.

This does strike me as fraud as well. I am sure one phone call to the right agency and there would be a crack down. In all of this it once again strikes me that choosing a reputable and high performing (year over year) dealership is key. A great dealership, or a dealership trying to build a network or group of dealerships will resort to these tactics (and yet some do as we are hearing). The long game means you need to treat customers right. This might surprise everyone but without customers no one has their job. So many forget this all the time. If customers organise themselves, like on this forum, that is a form of persuasion and power. Dealerships can be so short sighted.

 

[takemorepills]

The ADM's are pure greed. And any salesman masking as an enthusiast supporting ADM's are complicit in that greed. The real rub is stealerships will have the upper hand now because of short supply. But once the supply chain and the SIM shortage ends and starts flowing, anyone who extorted customers "just because they could" will reap the consequences of their behaviour. No one will return to a sales person who took advantage of them in a pandemic economy.

And yes...I get the capitalist freedom argument. It is actually why Canada has prevented ADM's. The market, if left to itself, will do exactly what it is doing to all of you in the US in this current use case of ADM's. It's just wrong.

"SIM shortage"? What's that?

 

[Eric48]

The ADM's are pure greed. And any salesman masking as an enthusiast supporting ADM's are complicit in that greed. The real rub is stealerships will have the upper hand now because of short supply. But once the supply chain and the SIM shortage ends and starts flowing, anyone who extorted customers "just because they could" will reap the consequences of their behaviour. No one will return to a sales person who took advantage of them in a pandemic economy.

And yes...I get the capitalist freedom argument. It is actually why Canada has prevented ADM's. The market, if left to itself, will do exactly what it is doing to all of you in the US in this current use case of ADM's. It's just wrong.

This does strike me as fraud as well. I am sure one phone call to the right agency and there would be a crack down. In all of this it once again strikes me that choosing a reputable and high performing (year over year) dealership is key. A great dealership, or a dealership trying to build a network or group of dealerships will resort to these tactics (and yet some do as we are hearing). The long game means you need to treat customers right. This might surprise everyone but without customers no one has their job. So many forget this all the time. If customers organise themselves, like on this forum, that is a form of persuasion and power. Dealerships can be so short sighted.

I feel perhaps you're overestimating the attention span, and underestimating the general apathy of the average consumer. We're enthusiasts who frequent a message board, so we don't fall into that category, but I think overall people will forget.

 

[takemorepills]

i agree but canada has its own issues. currently dealers are getting around this in canada by allowing the manager to drive the truck a few hundred or thousand K and selling the truck as used. look at all the New frontiers in ontario and most are being sold with 900-1700km on them to get around the laws. they even send the truck to another sister dealer to be sold on their lot as used for a higher mark up.

This does strike me as fraud as well. I am sure one phone call to the right agency and there would be a crack down. In all of this it once again strikes me that choosing a reputable and high performing (year over year) dealership is key. A great dealership, or a dealership trying to build a network or group of dealerships will resort to these tactics (and yet some do as we are hearing). The long game means you need to treat customers right. This might surprise everyone but without customers no one has their job. So many forget this all the time. If customers organise themselves, like on this forum, that is a form of persuasion and power. Dealerships can be so short sighted.

Again, not a Canadian law expert, but it wouldn't surprise me if those tactics aren't totally legal in Canada.

I have seen this mentioned many times on Tundra forums. There was one guy who pulled up "used 2022 Tundra" on cars.com and found 187 of them for sale. How the heck is a brand-new, can't keep them on the lot, super popular truck available as "used" so soon after initial release?

 

[FBD]

"SIM shortage"? What's that?

Subscriber Identification Module = Chip. It is the SIM card in cell phones and vehicles. The supply chain has been massively disrupted with most SIMs coming from China. Manufacturers are trying to pivot and are currently building other manufacturing sites they deem are more secure in other parts of the world. But that will be another 18-24 months at least. Tesla's for example can take up to 4 SIMs. We are at everyone's mercy. Until we get a handle on the SIM problem manufacturing the Z would only result in a bunch of Zs sitting in a parking lot without the chip. yeah yeah...we already all know all of this...