CAMBER question with lowering springs

[Mugzilla]

ALL:

@D2M and I have been chatting through the IM feature. I have a question for the group

There are 2 threads of interest that talk about the camber taken away by and lowering springs:

https://www.nissanzclub.com/forum/t...e-new-z-can-only-be-adjusted-at-the-toe.3766/

https://www.nissanzclub.com/forum/t...ed-inward-after-installation.2785/#post-97172


ALL: What type of wear are you seeing on front tires from lowering springs with -1.5 / -1.6 degree front camber?

I REALLY want to get rid of the wheel gap with the Swift or Eibach lowering springs. But I don't want to go through Michelin 4Ss every 5k miles. (And, I prefer to run a staggered setup, but it isn't a dealbreaker.)

 

[VR30Infection]

-1.5 to -1.6 will not be an issue. Just make sure you get aligned proper when it comes to toe. I used to run -2 front and -1.5 rear on my MR2 with no issues at all. If you want to feel secure in your decision look up factory M3/M4 alignment. Personally I would want adj uppers though because you get extra caster as well.

 

[Mugzilla]

I feel like it is a "kneebone is connected to the ... shin-bone" situation.

I want to get the tires flush with the fender.

GREAT! Get spacers!

Darn! Now I'm technically illegal, as well as putting strain on the wheel bearings.

Solution! Get aftermarket rims! Now I need to decide to run square or staggered.....

Staggered! Darn! Get new tires!

Damn! now I have to contend with that top gap!

Get lowering springs!

Darn! My camber!

Get adjustable control arms!

Now I spent all my money and my cat is homeless!

 

[D2M]

Dont overthink the wheel spacer thing. A 10-15mm spacer wont put any extra load on the wheel bearing. The worst thing you will notice is the added positive scrub radius and thats something you can get used to easily. You would be hard pressed to find a car at a track day not running some kind of wheel spacer. I personally had spacers on all my cars since the late 90s as I bought wheels that didn't clear my brakes on my 95 Supra back then, I didnt know what to do and was introduced to spacers. Back then only a few companies made spacers so I bought H&R 15mm. I had those same spacers and studs on 4-5 cars over 20+ years. ( I was a big Toyota / Lexus guy back then )

 

[VR30Infection]

I feel like it is a "kneebone is connected to the ... shin-bone" situation.

I want to get the tires flush with the fender.

GREAT! Get spacers!

Darn! Now I'm technically illegal, as well as putting strain on the wheel bearings.

Solution! Get aftermarket rims! Now I need to decide to run square or staggered.....

Staggered! Darn! Get new tires!

Damn! now I have to contend with that top gap!

Get lowering springs!

Darn! My camber!

Get adjustable control arms!

Now I spent all my money and my cat is homeless!

Yeah, I totally understand. When you first go through this kind of thing it can really suck you in. The good thing is that you learn as you go and you gain a better understanding on how everything works and how your car is set up. Send my condolences to fluffy.

 

[Who.Am.Eye.2716]

Misconception on premature tire wear isn't camber. Its the toe that scrubs the tires and wears them down fast. You wont be changing tires every 5k

You will be ok with -1.6/-1.7 camber. When you look at those charts, you notice the green bar in the middle. Those are tolerance bar. Anything in the green is good. Now that you know that info, you will only be -0.1/-0.2 outside of the green bar

I tell my alignment shop to make the camber the same on left and right. Its not a big deal for anyone, but I sleep better at night

A pro to the front -neg camber. When you go into a corner on spirited drives, your car will lean towards the front outside wheel. Your tire will then roll a little with the G force youre putting on them. When that happens, you will have full contact patch on the tire and get better traction to get you through the corner faster

 

[VR30Infection]

When you look at the alignment sheet for your car, the green is what is acceptable to be close to what Nissan has dictated for a factory alignment. A BMW M3 or M4 has a target of -2* front and rear without having excessive tire wear. Geometry is geometry. You’re not going to have a situation where car A can have -2 and have no wear but car B will wear out with -1.8. That’s not a thing. Nissan has the specs set up for the car to understeer in a corner so your average joe won’t spin out as easily by mistake. That’s why the Nismo has a 10” wide front rim but still has 255’s. Nissan knows their target. They know that most people will stay stock and go get some groceries and go to the local cars and coffee but they know that enthusiasts want more so they gave us the bones to work with easily. BMW on an M car (being the “ultimate driving machine” cares more about putting down numbers on a test to prove what they have engineered) for years people have used M car alignment specs as a great starting point for an aggressive street car. They are a double wishbone front and multi link rear just like the Z.

 

[D2M]

You can set the alignment specs perfect on a static alignment rack but once the car is in motion and suspension is loaded all you setting go out the window depending on how soft the control arm bushings are. The Z had a massive rear bushing on the front lower control arm that has a lot of movement, imo even the Nismo is too soft as far as bushings go. Basically alignment is a tuning tool, you have to set it according to your driving condition and style to get the best performance or tire life depending on what is more important to you. If tire life is important the stay conservative on camber and toe, if performance is more important then you can get more aggressive with the setting assuming you will push the car hard often enough to utilize them. The setting you get on the alignment printout is not what you get when you drive, the harder you drive the more "off" they will be especially if the car has soft bushings.

Try this test next time you drive. When coming to a complete stop just slam on the brakes when the car is at around 1-2mph, the car will stop immediately but you will get a back and forth reverberation movement in the car even though the wheels are stopped. What you w are feeling is all the bushings flexing back and fourth, this is very noticeable on the Z so the bushings must be soft. A car with stiff bushings will just stop immediately with very minimal to no movement thus better keeping its alignment setting when under load.

 

[VR30Infection]

Well not to mention with the under dampened shocks. The good thing is that most all of this is correctable for those that so desire. I wouldn’t quite say that all of your settings go out the window though. Someone that has -2* of static camber up front will have more grip than someone that is -1*. And -2 will not wear out your tires bad if you have good toe numbers