Looking for experienced input on purchase of new Z (Performance v NISMO)

[Drago86]

I'm going to side with @FSUZ33 on this one, and not just because we live in the same city. Ultimately it's your choice... but I'll toss some logic your way that may help.

First, recognize that yes... the Nismo is a track rat's wet dream come true. There's always room for improvement (in this case, TIRES... DUNLOPS SUCCCCCK), but the base Nismo is at home on the track straight out of the box. If you're never going to do that... eh. Kinda sounds like ordering a banana split without any bananas... but whatever

Yes, a Performance CAN be modified to meet or exceed the Nismo. Two big reasons why this is usually a negative though:

1. Butt dyno is rarely an accurate indicator of performance. I've met lots of people who spent $600 on a CAI and got 10 negative horsepower due to MAF sensor readings changes who swore they picked up 40hp. Monkeying with suspension components produces equal beliefs. It's more rigid, must mean it handles better. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. The truth is, most people don't really know and never push the car to the point to find out. So, take claims like these with much skepticism. I'm not claiming anyone here is this way, but I've been in the car game a long time. If I had a dollar for every Mustang GT owner that said XYZ mods = faster than a GT500, I'd own 4 solid gold toilets. Every fandom has this same story. Lower trim can be faster than the higher trim. In theory, that's actually true. It's just usually not cheaper unless corners are cut and compromises are made. Oh, and note how these folks never factor in the 80 hours of self labor you have to put in to make the numbers semi look favorable.
2. The Nismo has a warranty. If you mod out a Performance to the Nismo or NIsmo+ standard, your warranty = void.

You know what the Nismo rides like. The Performance will feel like riding in a cloud. Thus, there is one very important test you should do to help you make your decision:

Get out on the road, let 'er rip to 60. SMASH THE BRAKE. You either think it's OK, or you throw up a little in your mouth and want out of the car. If you think it's OK, buy the Performance because if you can put up with that, you don't really need what the Nismo offers. That's my advice anyway

A mustang gt to a gt500 is a much bigger leap than the performance is to a nismo.

Excluding the tires, which make the biggest difference in any car, performance wise the nismo basically has stiffer suspension(biggest difference imho, the stock performance is set up like a gt car/cruiser), 4 braces the performance lacks(same braces the later nismo 370 got BTW, except minus the Yamaha chassis dampers it also got), a super mild tune, bigger front brakes, two aux heat exchangers(one for the intercooler system and one for engine coolent) and mild aero.

That is not a lot of things you need to change even if you wanted the full Nismo treatment.

 

[Mr. Mac]

Curious as to what was damaged/broken on the car.
Clearly some aero ripped from underneath.
Hood poppers deployed. Any airbags?
Right front fender damage, but front end and hood seem OK in the pics.
Did you hit deer or anything, or was the damage from the ditch?
Looks like you could pull it out and drive it home, other than the hood in the way.

Edit: It looks like the roof is dented, so I assume there's a lot more going on than a quick look and 2 pics can convey.

You're right though, at first glance it doesn't look that bad, but it is. What you don't see in these photos is just how deep that drop off ditch on side of road is, or the row of huge boulders hiding underneath all those dead leaves. They completely ripped off the entire front/right wheel, brakes, arms, rods, suspension, etc., and destroyed the entire underside from front to rear and front end. If you look closely at the roof you can also see where the force buckled it too. If all those boulders weren't there it would've been fairly minor damage and fixable.

 

[Mr. Mac]

Thanks everyone for all the responses. Appreciated.

I'm fairly confident on what to do engine/exhaust-wise in order to get performance back up to where I was with my NISMO should I happen to go with a Performance MT next instead of NISMO MT (intakes, heat exchanger, lower downpipes, 3" exhaust system, a proper tune, etc.)

Handling/suspension-wise though is really where I need some guidance, and from what I'm gathering here, to get a Performance MT up to snuff from factory would be upgrading sway bars, lowering springs or coilovers, and adjustable control arms. Think I also read something about braces too. Would any of you mind giving some suggested manufacturers/models specifically for those handling/suspension upgrade items to help narrow down the field so I can start doing some pre-sales homework?

 

[David Montgomery]

Thanks everyone for all the responses. Appreciated.

I'm fairly confident on what to do engine/exhaust-wise in order to get performance back up to where I was with my NISMO should I happen to go with a Performance MT next instead of NISMO MT (intakes, heat exchanger, lower downpipes, 3" exhaust system, a proper tune, etc.)

Handling/suspension-wise though is really where I need some guidance, and from what I'm gathering here, to get a Performance MT up to snuff from factory would be upgrading sway bars, lowering springs or coilovers, and adjustable control arms. Think I also read something about braces too. Would any of you mind giving some suggested manufacturers/models specifically for those handling/suspension upgrade items to help narrow down the field so I can start doing some pre-sales homework?

Wouldn't you just go to Z1 Motorsports to get that list?

 

[Mr. Mac]

Wouldn't you just go to Z1 Motorsports to get that list?

If that's the best place being recommended for all those handling items, then yes, absolutely. Is it?

 

[FSUZ33]

If you're unaware, pay attention to and investigate heim joints (race) vs urethane bushings (street) on suspension arms/components. Heim joints are going to give you very precise control, but are pretty harsh and noisy compared to rubber and urethane bushings. Many brands (SPL/NISMO) only come with heim joints.

 

[Xylander]

A mustang gt to a gt500 is a much bigger leap than the performance is to a nismo.

Excluding the tires, which make the biggest difference in any car, performance wise the nismo basically has stiffer suspension(biggest difference imho, the stock performance is set up like a gt car/cruiser), 4 braces the performance lacks(same braces the later nismo 370 got BTW, except minus the Yamaha chassis dampers it also got), a super mild tune, bigger front brakes, two aux heat exchangers(one for the intercooler system and one for engine coolent) and mild aero.

That is not a lot of things you need to change even if you wanted the full Nismo treatment.

This is pretty much the sentiment I'm against. That's because this leads to someone not adding the larger brakes, or leaving off the expensive additional coolers. Then, you have the simple fact that changing out the suspension components is just about more expensive than an engine swap. A few sentences makes it sound so cheap and easy... when you're looking at what, 30+ hours of labor to do the entire upgrade if you don't cut corners and leave off some of the coolers?

But, most everyone cuts those corners. Put some parts on, add the STILLEN stickers to the car, done. People tend to skip upgrades that don't make the car go faster or stop harder... and saving a few thousand on needless coolers that "just add weight" (heard that here recently) is just fine and dandy...

Sorry, don't agree.

The reason I brought up the Mustang vs GT500 issue is that you see this over there as par for the course. 5.0 owner wants GT500 power for GT prices. Their builds typically fall short... most often, FAR short. The common thing you hear over there is, "Whipple, E85, injectors, pump, and a tune = GT500 killer." Only, it doesn't have the ability in the rear to put the power down in any way shape or form. The axles can't handle the power and just about all of them end up with split CV boots. The driveshaft can't handle the torque. The stock clutch can't handle it either. So, they start with around $15,000 in power mods, only to end up with a car that's laid up from constantly breaking drivetrain components until they pony up the added 10-15 grand in needed upgrades. Now, that car costs more than the GT500 and it still doesn't make GT500 power and can only drive 100mi on a full tank of E85.

I see this Performance to Nismo upgrade talk in the exact same light. I've never seen it successfully done that's both an equal performer at similar cost. That's simply because the OEM is sourcing parts below wholesale. An owner is sourcing parts at full retail. You'll never get to the Nismo spec on the same budget unless you cut corners... and then you're just not at the same point.

 

[Xylander]

If that's the best place being recommended for all those handling items, then yes, absolutely. Is it?

Z1 is good for most streetable upgrades.

 

[Mr. Mac]

If you're unaware, pay attention to and investigate heim joints (race) vs urethane bushings (street) on suspension arms/components. Heim joints are going to give you very precise control, but are pretty harsh and noisy compared to rubber and urethane bushings. Many brands (SPL/NISMO) only come with heim joints.

Was not aware. Great info, thanks. Will definitely keep that in mind as I work through all this.

 

[Mr. Mac]

Z1 is good for most streetable upgrades.

Thanks, and yes, I believe the type of spirited driving I normally do and level of performance/handling suitable for that probably qualifies as steetable, not track.

 

[Xylander]

Thanks, and yes, I believe the type of spirited driving I normally do and level of performance/handling suitable for that probably qualifies as steetable, not track.

I only bring that up as there's a difference when building with a race builder/supplier. Back when I was researching the best path for my Z, I talked at length with Z1 and ended up going a different direction. I need a lot more than just a power bump.

 

[Mr. Mac]

Oh BTW, based on what I described earlier, do any of you have opinions/advice on factory brakes on the Performance version? I know the NISMO is already up to snuff, but want to be informed and prepared on stopping power too should I happen to opt for a Performance MT instead of NISMO MT. Is OEM braking on Performance adequate for spirited/non-track driving?

PS: I realize this may be difficult to speculate on since I think I read somewhere that brakes are being upgraded as well from Nissan on the '27 Performance, so not sure if anyone has more info on that.

 

[Xylander]

Oh BTW, based on what I described earlier, do any of you have opinions/advice on factory brakes on the Performance version? I know the NISMO is already up to snuff, but want to be informed and prepared on stopping power too should I happen to opt for a Performance MT instead of NISMO MT. Is OEM braking on Performance adequate for spirited/non-track driving?

PS: I realize this may be difficult to speculate on since I think I read somewhere that brakes are being upgraded as well from Nissan on the '27 Performance, so not sure if anyone has more info on that.

I'd say they're adequate unto the task. However, how they feel to the driver may or may not be. I don't like how they feel. Too spongy. It's like in Ford vs. Ferrari where he's barrelling into a turn and you can see it on his face that he's scared to mash the pedal because it might not work. That's sort of the feeling I got out of driving a Performance. Vague pedal feel that leaves me less than confident in the car's ability.

Now, for street and back roads driving... probably just fine because I'm not standing on the brakes doing that. The main issue is brake heat. The non-Nismos don't handle that well. So, you can drive it hard for a little bit, but you will have to let it rest if the brakes start to feel funny.

 

[Mr. Mac]

I'd say they're adequate unto the task. However, how they feel to the driver may or may not be. I don't like how they feel. Too spongy. It's like in Ford vs. Ferrari where he's barrelling into a turn and you can see it on his face that he's scared to mash the pedal because it might not work. That's sort of the feeling I got out of driving a Performance. Vague pedal feel that leaves me less than confident in the car's ability.

Now, for street and back roads driving... probably just fine because I'm not standing on the brakes doing that. The main issue is brake heat. The non-Nismos don't handle that well. So, you can drive it hard for a little bit, but you will have to let it rest if the brakes start to feel funny.

Do you happen to know if OEM Performance brake performance can be improved much with simple pad swaps? Or are we talking more extensive upgrades, like calipers, rotors, lines, etc. to achieve significant improvement?

 

[HuskeRZ34]

Do you happen to know if OEM Performance brake performance can be improved much with simple pad swaps? Or are we talking more extensive upgrades, like calipers, rotors, lines, etc. to achieve significant improvement?

Z1 makes upgraded rotors, pads and brake lines to upgrade them. This YouTuber just posted a video on it about a month ago. Seems like a good way to go…