Senate passes Chip Manufacturing Bill

[Donalex]

The Senate passed a bipartisan bill Wednesday that would provide $52 billion in subsidies to domestic semiconductor manufacturers and invest billions in science and technology innovation, in a bid to strengthen the United States’ competitiveness and self-reliance in what is seen as a keystone industry for economic and national security.

Senate passes bill to subsidize U.S.-made semiconductor chips
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/07/27/senate-chips-funding-bill-pass/

 

[Denver the Last Dinosaur]

Except there are next to no chip manufacturing factories in the US yet.

A couple of Asian-owned chip makers are in the process of opening up US-based factories, but apart from employing US people and paying US taxes, it kind of side-steps the whole "US made" scenario since all the profits will still be going to Asia.

 

[Donalex]

Except there are next to no chip manufacturing factories in the US yet.

A couple of Asian-owned chip makers are in the process of opening up US-based factories, but apart from employing US people and paying US taxes, it kind of side-steps the whole "US made" scenario since all the profits will still be going to Asia.

OMG.

Maybe read the story before you comment.

The Bill makes money available to add more capacity. This is still, and will always be, a Global Economy so, of course, some profit goes to foreign parent companies.

This America First stuff is Bullshit.

 

[Denver the Last Dinosaur]

^ The point was that, apart from Intel, there are no "domestic semiconductor manufactures" in the US big enough, or able to expand quickly enough, to make any difference. They're offering money to companies that don't exist.

It's the second part of that sentence that would be more important: "invest billions in science and technology innovation". Giving money to the US companies to do R&D work which they then send to Asia for the manufacturing runs.

This America First stuff is Bullshit.

Pretty much every country has their own version of that - "Buy XYZ made" slogans of some form or other. It's all just a load of nonsense really. I'll buy locally when it is not two/three times the price for the same product. It's cheaper for me to import books from the UK than to buy them in shops here!

 

[ZDreamer]

Arizona already started building a $12B chip facility in ~2018. The previous admin stepped aside and brought in the TSMC giant.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/new...miconductors-north-phoenix-office/7498673001/

This bill reacts in part to a national security due to the hostility between the "two countries" China and Taiwan.

 

[ZDreamer]

OMG.

Maybe read the story before you comment.

The Bill makes money available to add more capacity. This is still, and will always be, a Global Economy so, of course, some profit goes to foreign parent companies.

This America First stuff is Bullshit.

I believe what he was talking about was the contention in the media that criticize a portion (small or large... I don't know) of the bill .... saying that it will subsidize Intel manufacturing which is all in China. Again, it was one of the media talking point.

As to the "global economy", I believe based on the lesson we've learn in the last several yrs, there is such a thing as going too far with globalism. I think it's reasonable to have a balanced manufacturing between US and foreign. And where that metric or line is established, no body knows bc both parties aren't cooperating until this chip shortage happens. And we're like 10-20yrs behind China... I think.

 

[Donalex]

That's the problem... believing the "media", some of which have an obvious agenda.

 

[ZDreamer]

That's the problem... believing the "media", some of which have an obvious agenda.

Bro you didn’t even cite or link the bill ....

 

[Donalex]

Bro you didn’t even cite or link the bill ....

Google works everywhere, ya know...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/carlie...st-us-microchip-production-heres-whats-in-it/

 

[Donalex]

The House just passed the Chips and Science Act.

Next, it goes to the President for his signature.

 

[jdm-rhd]

The House just passed the Chips and Science Act.

Next, it goes to the President for his signature.

he'll sign that right after he signs the 'training wheels for all bicycles act'

 

[Raven1]

Except there are next to no chip manufacturing factories in the US yet.

A couple of Asian-owned chip makers are in the process of opening up US-based factories, but apart from employing US people and paying US taxes, it kind of side-steps the whole "US made" scenario since all the profits will still be going to Asia.

There are quite a few Fabs in the U.S.

On Semi Conductor, Micro Chip, Intel Corp, Global Foundries, Texas Instruments, Micron Technologies, Samsung Corp and these is on this list I have personally been to support tool down, new tool installations and tool escalations. The others are Nvidia, Analog Devices, Skyworks, Maxim Integrated and AMD. These are the ones I can think of off the top of my head but I'm sure if someone Googled real quick they'll find a complete list.

If you're not in Semi then you don't understand why this is so huge. Intellectual Property can be controlled (Secrets Kept) and Process Critical Chips (if the item fails people die, Military Applications, Airline Traffic Control, Medical Devices, Traffic Control Chips) and .Gov items (I.T.A.R) can be manufactured here to keep our Military, Nat Sec items at the highest level of Security as only authorized personnel have access to Eyes Only I.P. throughout the entire manufacturing process.

This is a huge win for the U.S. and anywhere a fab goes up the local economy booms with it. I've been in semi for over 25yrs and so far, the industry has been recession proof. Times get tough people really cling to their mobile devices, TVs and game consoles while they stay home and not spend money they don't have . . .

 

[ceric]

If you think TSMC will make money from building/operating a fab in US (5nm and below), then, you are probably mistaken. I work with TSMC a lot. They are coerced by US to build a fab here in US. The cost of a fab in US is at least 50% higher than a similar one in Taiwan. Cost of construction, operations, personnel, etc. It is hard to find qualified employees in US (nowadays) that are capable and willing to work in a fab (hint: bunny suit, and on call to get to factory within 1 hr for any emergencies). TSMC knew they will lose money in US. This Chip Act just helps them lose *less*.

Intel is a diff story entirely. They need the money.
Samsung tries to sit on the fence by investing both in China and USA. The Koreans try to be smart by not taking sides. Let us see how that will turn out.

 

[Raven1]

If you think TSMC will make money from building/operating a fab in US (5nm and below), then, you are probably mistaken. I work with TSMC a lot. They are coerced by US to build a fab here in US. The cost of a fab in US is at least 50% higher than a similar one in Taiwan. Cost of construction, operations, personnel, etc. It is hard to find qualified employees in US (nowadays) that are capable and willing to work in a fab (hint: bunny suit, and on call to get to factory within 1 hr for any emergencies). TSMC knew they will lose money in US. This Chip Act just helps them lose *less*.

Intel is a diff story entirely. They need the money.
Samsung tries to sit on the fence by investing both in China and USA. The Koreans try to be smart by not taking sides. Let us see how that will turn out.

TSMC Will Absolutely Make Money in the U.S.! I'm in Taiwan now on rotation, my company just had a record 4.3 Billion record quarter. Other Capitol Equipment Companies that make the manufacturing equipment (Chip Makers use our machinery to manufacture their products) companies are experiencing the same. I completely agree it is super difficult hiring highly skilled, disciplined, motivated people to work in Semi. This is a demanding industry that 1 mistake could cause a fab wide excursion that will cause a chip maker billions. But that's the way of things in Semi.

One thing I will say for certain, Rich guys do one thing very well, that's find ways to stay rich and get richer. Building fabs is extremely expensive but No Chip Maker Builds a Fab To Lose Money!! TSMC makes Most of the worlds chips and they are doing Extremely Well. Building a Fab that is going to be subsidized is akin to NFL Team Owners getting their stadiums built for free. With One HUGE Difference - Semi industry Does Not Have An Off Season, Semi is 365 | 24/7 and Holidays Be Damned. I know because I'm embarrassed to say how many birthdays, anniversaries, graduations, weddings etc I've missed.

Sadly, Intel is a victim of their own doing (I Know, I spent 17 years onsite at literally every fab they've built) and they are experiencing the repercussions of their decisions. Here's to them and hoping their management team turns the ship around to better profits.

Samsung has taken a side . . theirs, they were a key account of mine for 2 years. Apple really helped make them into the power house that they are and Sammy has wisely kept the momentum going. They make excellent products in the mobile space and their memory division is top notch, so Good on them . . .

 

[Donalex]

The key is we need national investment to help us.

It'd be nice if these companies would start trade schools to feed the employee pipeline. If I were younger, I'd have no idea how to obtain the skills needed for a tech job.