71zman

Well-Known Member
First Name
John
Joined
Aug 6, 2022
Threads
9
Messages
271
Reaction score
924
Location
Indiana
Car(s)
71 240z, 90 300zx, 23 ZProtoMT, 24 Z Nismo

Heavy Dupree

Well-Known Member
First Name
Chris
Joined
Nov 12, 2020
Threads
27
Messages
493
Reaction score
1,187
Location
Tampa, Fl
Car(s)
2020 AMG C63S, 2020 Tacoma TRD Sport
Occupation
Retired
I've got an Antigravity installed in my Triumph Speed Twin, good stuff.

There's a saying that shedding 20lbs is like adding +10hp, what was the weight of this one vs the group 35 LAB?
 
OP
OP
71zman

71zman

Well-Known Member
First Name
John
Joined
Aug 6, 2022
Threads
9
Messages
271
Reaction score
924
Location
Indiana
Car(s)
71 240z, 90 300zx, 23 ZProtoMT, 24 Z Nismo
I've got an Antigravity installed in my Triumph Speed Twin, good stuff.

There's a saying that shedding 20lbs is like adding +10hp, what was the weight of this one vs the group 35 LAB?
Factory Battery is 33.1 lbs. Antigravity Lithium battery is 3.8 lbs. Definitely loses some weight.
 

Raven1

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2022
Threads
1
Messages
253
Reaction score
583
Location
Phoenix
Car(s)
2007 350z HR Motor
Occupation
503rd Lead Farmer
Are these capable of thermal runaway, or are they a different chemistry than what's in BEVs and smartphones?
Yes.

Same tech as what is in the EVs, this is just a smaller package.
Their 'Larger' Brethren in EVs are comprised of hundreds of Individual Ion Cells. The Individual cells are capable of storing a huge amount of energy, as we know, water damage (As Evidenced from the Recent Florida Habbenings) and damage from Impacts cause fires. The design of the battery utilizes Organic Liquid Electrolytes (It's What Plants Crave - Idiocracy, Lulz!) which are volatile when exposed to high heat (Flame, Ignition Source) which is difficult to extinguish due to it's 'Liquid Fire' composition.

Great Concept, But We need a 'Dry' Version for widespread automotive adoption. I mean the life span on these batteries are estimated at 10 - 20 Year Service life.
But They Can NEVER BE Jump Started - Be Cause BOOM!! Slow Trickle Charge ONLY for a Deeply Depleted Lithium Ion Battery. Battery Swaps > Jump Starting.

AlsoKeep in mind if you're making the Switch. These batteries like their constant rate of charge Higher @ 14 to 15vlts over the legacy 13.2 to 14vlts batteries so you'll be needing to upgrade the Alternator or Regulator as well.

Great to have another option, just a couple of points to consider . . .
 

takemorepills

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2021
Threads
15
Messages
2,393
Reaction score
5,167
Location
Seattle area
Car(s)
Q60
AlsoKeep in mind if you're making the Switch. These batteries like their constant rate of charge Higher @ 14 to 15vlts over the legacy 13.2 to 14vlts batteries so you'll be needing to upgrade the Alternator or Regulator as well.

Great to have another option, just a couple of points to consider . . .
How does that work with vehicles that have ECM controlled alternators?

For example, my Titan has a current sensor on the neg batt cable to detect current in or out, plus the ECM knows the battery voltage and alternator output. It uses these values to control the field of the alternator and manage the charging of what would usually be a lead acid battery... as-is it sounds like this setup is not compatible with these batteries?
 

Raven1

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2022
Threads
1
Messages
253
Reaction score
583
Location
Phoenix
Car(s)
2007 350z HR Motor
Occupation
503rd Lead Farmer
How does that work with vehicles that have ECM controlled alternators?

For example, my Titan has a current sensor on the neg batt cable to detect current in or out, plus the ECM knows the battery voltage and alternator output. It uses these values to control the field of the alternator and manage the charging of what would usually be a lead acid battery... as-is it sounds like this setup is not compatible with these batteries?
Nissan Titan Is NOT Compatible due to the charging algorithm on the ECM and being optimized for the lead acid battery. On a lead acid batt the 'Bulk' charge completes at 80% and then goes into 'Float' mode to maintain a state of charge around 13.2vlts give or take on the system load at the time. If your system does NOT account for the needed higher voltage 14+ required for the Li-Ion Batt then it will essentially stay in 'Bulk' charge mode and over charge / damage the battery. Your vehicle charging system basically needs to turn into a power supply (like your laptop once the battery is fully charged) and have the capability to power the battery to 14.2vlts while cycling the battery from charging to duty cycle / cycling back and forth from car batt and the vehicle charging system.

Li-Ion does not trickle charge after 80% threshold is reached (Lead Acid) as on the Li-Ion Batt goes all the way to 100% and the charge is Complete / Stopped then cycles off like a power supply.

Which brings up another great point. A Standard 6V/12V/24V Lead Acid Battery Charger is NOT Compatible with these batteries and will require a specific CC/CV (Constant Current / Constant Voltage) charger which limits the amount of current to pre-set level to achieve the pre-set voltage level which is reduced once reached, this is essentially Fast/Quick Charge without the risk of over charging. A Specific Lithium-Ion plug in wall charger will be required. It looks like all the old school battery chargers except is all solid state with digital display over analog gauges.

Thanks for bringing up the topic of some vehicles needing even more mods other than a simple alternator change / voltage regulator change to properly run Lithium-Ion batteries. So everyone please be sure to verify what system your vehicle is equipped with . . .
 
Last edited:

Loco38SUP

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 14, 2022
Threads
5
Messages
251
Reaction score
638
Location
Seattle
Car(s)
2021 GR Supra
Occupation
Engineer
How does that work with vehicles that have ECM controlled alternators?

For example, my Titan has a current sensor on the neg batt cable to detect current in or out, plus the ECM knows the battery voltage and alternator output. It uses these values to control the field of the alternator and manage the charging of what would usually be a lead acid battery... as-is it sounds like this setup is not compatible with these batteries?
On my Supra I’m able to program the alternator output via an app on my phone. This way I’m not over-charging the battery and risking damage.

-RJM
 

Heavy Dupree

Well-Known Member
First Name
Chris
Joined
Nov 12, 2020
Threads
27
Messages
493
Reaction score
1,187
Location
Tampa, Fl
Car(s)
2020 AMG C63S, 2020 Tacoma TRD Sport
Occupation
Retired
These batteries like their constant rate of charge Higher @ 14 to 15vlts over the legacy 13.2 to 14vlts batteries so you'll be needing to upgrade the Alternator or Regulator as well.
FWIW, alternator charge is generally adjustable via ECU settings. You can also keep the LIB topped off with a Battery Tender between drives.
 

Raven1

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2022
Threads
1
Messages
253
Reaction score
583
Location
Phoenix
Car(s)
2007 350z HR Motor
Occupation
503rd Lead Farmer
FWIW, alternator charge is generally adjustable via ECU settings. You can also keep the LIB topped off with a Battery Tender between drives.
Good Info - Gracias.

I have the J-Scan App for the wife's Jeep Gladiator, I wonder if there is an adjustment that can be made there? Love learning about new stuff like this !!
 

Heavy Dupree

Well-Known Member
First Name
Chris
Joined
Nov 12, 2020
Threads
27
Messages
493
Reaction score
1,187
Location
Tampa, Fl
Car(s)
2020 AMG C63S, 2020 Tacoma TRD Sport
Occupation
Retired
It usually requires a deeper dive than just the basic scanning tools allow, this is an example of the alternator duty cycle settings to adjust for an AGM in the 3rd Gen Tacoma.

upload_2020-10-12_14-15-13.jpg
 

takemorepills

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2021
Threads
15
Messages
2,393
Reaction score
5,167
Location
Seattle area
Car(s)
Q60
On my Supra I’m able to program the alternator output via an app on my phone. This way I’m not over-charging the battery and risking damage.

-RJM
On my Mk7 GTI I had full control over all modules with OBDEleven or VCDS.

I haven't seen these kinds of tools for Nissan.
 

ZDreamer

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2021
Threads
2
Messages
399
Reaction score
466
Location
Texas
Car(s)
Subaru
Are these capable of thermal runaway, or are they a different chemistry than what's in BEVs and smartphones?
No, the risk of thermal runaway is much lower than common li-ion. A123 battery had a breakthrough 10yrs ago on this LiPO4Fe battery chemistry.

Pre-2021 Tesla uses nickel-cobalt-aluminium, a common li-ion chemistry. It has been reported that newer ones uses LiPO4Fe
 
 





Top