Is supra engine better?

[Kbl911]

they both have their positives and negatives.

maybe another question that we should ask is which would you rather have? let's look at twist of the classic choice triangle...

1. fast
2. reliable
3. cheap to maintain

you can't have all 3, so pick 2

Ultimately, this is where I fall on the matter - it's the classic cost-of-ownership consideration. Viewed with a wide lens, both vehicles are quick (not really "fast," since that would be a top speed measurement and neither is particularly spectacular in that arena). The Supra is a much more capable performer and, with both in stock setup, no Z owner should really want to see one at a stoplight; I really question its overall long term reliability, however. The BMW underpinnings concern me, not necessarily because I fear they will instantly fail, but because repairs tend to be incredibly costly overall once they do.

My Z is my daily driver so I will always have to err on the side of general reliability and eventual cost of ownership. I wouldn't be modifying it (at least not in any mechanical/tuning capacity) so the engine's potential for upgrade truly isn't a factor. I think lots of buyers will just want to buy the car and drive the thing rather than autocross it

That's just me.

 

[Blackbeard]

man this insta post aged poorly before he hit send

 

[Blackbeard]

I watched the fight, that was a nasty kick.

-RJM

The guy was winning on the points card then he caught the lumber lol he took a full powered shin to the side of the head

 

[fliplover]

Ultimately, this is where I fall on the matter - it's the classic cost-of-ownership consideration. Viewed with a wide lens, both vehicles are quick (not really "fast," since that would be a top speed measurement and neither is particularly spectacular in that arena). The Supra is a much more capable performer and, with both in stock setup, no Z owner should really want to see one at a stoplight; I really question its overall long term reliability, however. The BMW underpinnings concern me, not necessarily because I fear they will instantly fail, but because repairs tend to be incredibly costly overall once they do.

My Z is my daily driver so I will always have to err on the side of general reliability and eventual cost of ownership. I wouldn't be modifying it (at least not in any mechanical/tuning capacity) so the engine's potential for upgrade truly isn't a factor. I think lots of buyers will just want to buy the car and drive the thing rather than autocross it

That's just me.

This.

I'm planning on keeping this car for a long time. I have enough experience with German industrial equipment to make me not trust a German car.

German stuff may be better off the bat, but long term I have serious doubts.

 

[ZDreamer]

they both have their positives and negatives.

maybe another question that we should ask is which would you rather have? let's look at twist of the classic choice triangle...

1. fast
2. reliable
3. cheap to maintain

you can't have all 3, so pick 2

Toyota represent reliable. BMW represent fast. Toyota Supra appears to be very popular with many aftermarket supports--to saturate the parts market, in hope that it will be cheap to maintain.

 

[Kbl911]

German stuff may be better off the bat, but long term I have serious doubts.

Not that it's an identical scenario, but I still have nightmares about my VW GTI. Toyota dealerships servicing the Supra might lower some costs, but we're still dealing with BMW parts so I fear the exorbitant pricing will be unavoidable

 

[Loco38SUP]

Not that it's an identical scenario, but I still have nightmares about my VW GTI. Toyota dealerships servicing the Supra might lower some costs, but we're still dealing with BMW parts so I fear the exorbitant pricing will be unavoidable

I had a 2007 GTI and the person that designed that engine should be slapped. It was a nightmare to work on.

The cooling hoses alone will leave you stranded on the side of the road.

-RJM

 

[Haste]

I've only owned 1 BMW, but my take away from ownership is that they really aren't all that expensive to maintain if you're willing to do the more basic work yourself. Most repairs are minor but the same parts fail over and over and wear out faster than on other cars I've owned. Major repairs can add up quick on older cars and easily exceed 50%, even 100% of the market value. Probably not the case with true M cars since they retain their value better. My opinion is based on particular models ranging from '07-'16 and some of this doesn't apply to newer models.

As far as parts, I've taken advantage of FCP Euro's lifetime replacement which has saved me thousands. Buy a part once from them, purchase it again when its time to replace, and they refund you the full amount of the new order minus shipping costs both ways once they receive the original parts back. You can do this for pretty much anything, even oil and fluids, just not stuff that's impossible to return like aerosol. With BMW's you are generally returning less oil than what they sent you but they'll prorate the refund based on what you send back. Would be cool to know if there's a Japanese equivalent. I've found certain parts to be crazy expensive for the BMW though, given the economy and as the car gets older. Over $3k for a new set of genuine index 12 injectors

Two very different machines but our VR6 Passat on the other hand has been a breeze to maintain. Oil changes, plugs, pads, rotors...that's about it.

 

[Loco38SUP]

I've only owned 1 BMW, but my take away from ownership is that they really aren't all that expensive to maintain if you're willing to do the more basic work yourself. Most repairs are minor but the same parts fail over and over and wear out faster than on other cars I've owned. Major repairs can add up quick on older cars and easily exceed 50%, even 100% of the market value. Probably not the case with true M cars since they retain their value better. My opinion is based on particular models ranging from '07-'16 and some of this doesn't apply to newer models.

As far as parts, I've taken advantage of FCP Euro's lifetime replacement which has saved me thousands. Buy a part once from them, purchase it again when its time to replace, and they refund you the full amount of the new order minus shipping costs both ways once they receive the original parts back. You can do this for pretty much anything, even oil and fluids, just not stuff that's impossible to return like aerosol. With BMW's you are generally returning less oil than what they sent you but they'll prorate the refund based on what you send back. Would be cool to know if there's a Japanese equivalent. I've found certain parts to be crazy expensive for the BMW though, given the economy and as the car gets older. Over $3k for a new set of genuine index 12 injectors

Two very different machines but our VR6 Passat on the other hand has been a breeze to maintain. Oil changes, plugs, pads, rotors...that's about it.

My GR Supra has been a breeze to wrench on and do maintenance. Its a pretty basic design compared to VW.

None of the top Car manufacturers are immune these days. That new twin turbo Tundra is a hot mess. My brother is a Toyota tech and he’s has had 4 in the shop for major warranty work.

2 for turbo replacements and 2 for engine block replacements. All of them with less than 2K miles.

-RJM

 

[Haste]

My GR Supra has been a breeze to wrench on and do maintenance. Its a pretty basic design compared to VW.

None of the top Car manufacturers are immune these days. That new twin turbo Tundra is a hot mess. My brother is a Toyota tech and he’s has had 4 in the shop for major warranty work.

2 for turbo replacements and 2 for engine block replacements. All of them with less than 2K miles.

-RJM

Nice, good to hear. For us it's not so much the difficulty, just that the Passat really never requires any attention where with the 335i it's a constant battle. Maybe we've been lucky with the VW. It has 125k miles on it and the BMW is right around 155k, so both higher mileage.

 

[supra93]

yes the 2jz-gte is bullet proof and far superior. / thread