2020 Toyota Supra makes world debut

[G37]

https://www.motor1.com/news/578238/toyota-grmn-supra-rumor-530-hp/


Looks are subjective. Engine and Supra in general has proven to be very reliable. I am on 2.5 race seasons where I beat on it 3 times a month.

Excited for this final GRMN version

Sure, looks are generally subjective, but when an obviously attractive woman stands next to one who is obviously not, looks become decidedly… OBjective. As for your anecdotal experience with your BMW, you’ve done very well, but it’s so well documented with tons of data that we already know in the long run your avg BMW simply will neither be particularly reliable, nor will it be inexpensive to repair and maintain.

 

[Denton]

Sure, looks are generally subjective, but when an obviously attractive woman stands next to one who is obviously not, looks become decidedly… OBjective.

sub·jec·tive
adjective
1.
based on or influenced by personal feelings, tastes, or opinions.

 

[ZDreamer]

Do I detect sarcasm? Toyota can and will do what they want, but what they did by taking a hallowed name and four generations of sports car history and throwing it out the window because they thought it would save them some money was a terrible decision. Toyota never should’ve contracted with BMW to make a “Toyota” Supra. Claims it would’ve been too expensive to do it themselves turned out to be BS. Witness tiny Mazda that was able to produce their own twin turbo inline-six. BMW was the winner in the partnership because they’re selling more Z4’s whereas Toyota doesn’t even make their own sports cars. They’ve left that to Subaru and BMW. The Toyobaru twins are great cars that for their price produce great numbers, they’re very good-looking and over time will closely approximate Toyota reliability, and Toyota costs of maintenance, repair and ownership. The MKV, while producing great numbers is neither good-looking, nor will it be reliable, cheap to repair, maintain and own in the long term. At least the Z is authentic and produces numbers that are quite good on their own. The above also begs the question, what kinda of a sports car will Mazda make with what is likely a jewel of a powertrain - one that Toyota should’ve made themselves.

Sarcasm on which part, precisely?

Look.... I agreed that Toyota may have gone too far with partnering with Subaru and BMW to slap on their Toyota badge to claim any bona fide. But to say that the Supra will not be successful like MKIV, is just another opinion and time will tell. So far so good from RealStreet:


And another video from BMW gearhead:

 

[rocksandblues]

Sure, looks are generally subjective, but when an obviously attractive woman stands next to one who is obviously not, looks become decidedly… OBjective. As for your anecdotal experience with your BMW, you’ve done very well, but it’s so well documented with tons of data that we already know in the long run your avg BMW simply will neither be particularly reliable, nor will it be inexpensive to repair and maintain.

I get enough compliments on the car to make me think it is not just me that subjectively loves it.

my daily is a trouble free 2002 m3
My son drives my trouble free 2008 335d
And we have a 1998 328 as a back up vehicle for guests to drive.

BMW has proven to me and the last 25 years to be reliable, fun to drive and pretty darn quick

I honestly wish Z owners nothing but great luck and fun. Guess I don’t get the hate from “going to be a Supra killer” to “ well it’s old warmed over chassis and slower in all
Metrics but still JMD” w Mercedes’ transmission

 

[ZDreamer]

I get enough compliments on the car to make me think it is not just me that subjectively loves it.

my daily is a trouble free 2002 m3
My son drives my trouble free 2008 335d
And we have a 1998 328 as a back up vehicle for guests to drive.

BMW has proven to me and the last 25 years to be reliable, fun to drive and pretty darn quick

I honestly wish Z owners nothing but great luck and fun. Guess I don’t get the hate from “going to be a Supra killer” to “ well it’s old warmed over chassis and slower in all
Metrics but still JMD” w Mercedes’ transmission

The non-M and pre-B58 has consistent history of troubles, so he's not wrong. E.g. the 335d requires plastic water pump housing change out every several yrs. Their "VTEC" system can be troublesome, compare to the real VTEC system. And it leaks oil like sieve. Overall, I'm quite optimistic that Toyota took part in the B58 engine implementation. If ppl want to look at the world thru a rear-view mirror, then I'm fine with that.

The B58/B58TU is different than their previous I6 and likely got blessed by Toyota--the QA/QC god! Right after BMW finished the design on the B58, Toyota came along in 2013 and did close inspection on it (there was an article about this long ago on how they examined it meticulously). BMW used the B58 for measly 3yrs (2015-2018) and now the Supra has the revision called B58TU. The timing chain and their components are not interchangeable. It went from 2 timing chains to a single timing chain--SUBSTANTIAL REVISION!!

 

[rocksandblues]

The non-M and pre-B58 has consistent history of troubles, so he's not wrong. E.g. the 335d requires plastic water pump housing change out every several yrs. Their "VTEC" system can be troublesome, compare to the real VTEC system. And it leaks oil like sieve. Overall, I'm quite optimistic that Toyota took part in the B58 engine implementation. If ppl want to look at the world thru a rear-view mirror, then I'm fine with that.

The B58/B58TU is different than their previous I6 and likely got blessed by Toyota--the QA/QC god! Right after BMW finished the design on the B58, Toyota came along in 2013 and did close inspection on it (there was an article about this long ago on how they examined it meticulously). BMW used the B58 for measly 3yrs (2015-2018) and now the Supra has the revision called B58TU. The timing chain and their components are not interchangeable. It went from 2 timing chains to a single timing chain--SUBSTANTIAL REVISION!!

BMW is "The Ultimate Driving machine"- has won accolade after accolade and they do push and often pioneer engine development. They are not for everyone. Some settle for reliability over performance and driver engagement. There is no arguement on how Lexus, Honda, Toyota, etc are mostly dead-nut reliable. But they are like driving a bland appliance. a sewing machine.

If you have not driven or owned a BMW you just won't get it. My 20 year old daily M3 all but begs me to take on ramps faster and faster. How many 20 year old JDM can you still beat on daily, look and drive great/timeless. This silly car has/had rev matching, 6 speeds, 8k red line in 2002!!

I can appreciate brand loyalty and am always tickled at the FORD vs CHEVY pickup truck wars over the decades when in reality both make pretty dam nice pickups. I am pulling for the Z to be a success- competition is fun on the track and pushes the manufacturers.

The 335d is amazingly powerful and reliable when you remove the EPA stuff- not BMW fault. The water pump housing and other issue are either overblown or non existent. My son has 500lbs of torque and gets up to 40mpg on the hwy

NEVER take a bmw to a dealership for work- people get screwed i get it. But there are tons or great indy shops that take the sting out of it.

BMW has had the straight 6 turbo or na nailed for decades. it is unarguably one of the best blocks and engine that spans generations.

You can like the Z better- for whatever reason you chose. That is awesome. But to crap on BMW because it is a joint effort, or has window buffeting ($6 fix) and yes they stay on at over 151 miles an hour repeatedly so far- is stupid. Can no longer throw the reliability rock at BMW either.

BMW is not perfect, nor is any car, as a car enthusiast I appreciate most all makes and models that seek to thrill the driver rather than just take them from point A to B in boring reliable numbness.

 

[BraveDemon]

If you have not driven or owned a BMW you just won't get it.

You can like the Z better- for whatever reason you chose. That is awesome. But to crap on BMW because it is a joint effort, or has window buffeting ($6 fix) and yes they stay on at over 151 miles an hour repeatedly so far- is stupid. Can no longer throw the reliability rock at BMW either.

Agree with @rocksandblues. I’ve owned a few recent BMWs now (X3, 4 series gran coupe and now the Zupra) and I’ve had zero issues with reliability.

FWIW - the most unreliable car I’ve owned was a 2002 Acura TL-S. I had to replace the transmission on that thing 3 times - twice under warranty and I had to pay out of pocket for the third. But I don’t trash on Acura as a brand in general - Acuras/Hondas are/were generally reliable and I just happened to get a shitty one with a slushbox for a transmission.

I daily my 22 Supra (about 35 miles everyday M-F) and I’ve had zero issues - not even the notorious oil consumption issue. Different use case than @rocksandblues (man I’d love to get my Supra on a track) but you have two Supra owners here with very different uses for the vehicle that have had no issues.

Shit on BMW/Toyota/Zupra all you want for it being ugly or not a true JDM car, but reliability is not one of the concerns on the MKV.

 

[gymratter]

Toyota GR Supra Matte White Edition Is Limited To 50 Units For Japan

https://www.carscoops.com/2022/07/t...ite-edition-is-limited-to-50-units-for-japan/

Toyota launched a new special edition of the GR Supra in Japan, called “Matte White Edition”, featuring an exclusive color combination and the newly released six-speed manual gearbox. The model is strictly limited to 50 units for the Japanese market, with Toyota organizing a lottery for the interested parties.

The GR Supra Matte White Edition is distinguished by the Matte Avalance White Metallic exterior shade, combined with black accents on the splitter, side sills, diffuser, mirrors, A-pillars, and intakes, among others. A set of 19-inch forged wheels finished in Frozen Gunmetal Gray is fitted, as well as red-painted brake calipers. This setup looks identical to the 2023 Toyota GR Supra A91-MT Edition offered in the US at a limited production of 500 units.

Inside, we find tan-colored leather upholstery for the seats, the lower part of the doors, the steering wheel, and the center console. More importantly, there is a carbon-fiber plate on the dashboard with “GR Supra” and “Matte White Edition” lettering, plus a cool sketch of the sportscar. There’s also matching carbon fiber trim around the six-speed manual gearbox. The special edition is based on the flagship RZ trim level, coming with all the goodies, including a wireless charging pad on the center console, a USB port, the 12-speaker JBL premium sound system, and the 8.8-inch infotainment touchscreen.

There are no changes under the bonnet where the turbocharged 3.0-liter six-cylinder engine produces 382 hp (285 kW / 387 PS). Power is sent to the rear axle through the six-speed manual transmission, while lesser trims are also available with the eight-speed automatic. Model year changes in Japan also include revised settings for the AVS (Adaptive Variable Suspension), EPS (Electric Power Steering), and VSC (Vehicle Stability Control) systems.

Pricing for the Toyota GR Supra Matte White Edition starts from ¥7,890,000 ($57,098), making it ¥577,000 ($4,175) more expensive than the RZ trim despite the fact that the only difference between them is the exterior shade and the special badge on the dashboard. In order to get one of the fifty examples of the limited edition, you’ll need to be lucky enough to be drawn in the lottery, for which Toyota is accepting entries between July 20 and August 21.

 

[V35]

Supposedly there is one that already hit 100k

https://www.supramkv.com/threads/who-has-highest-mileage-supra-miles.6295/page-12#post-209104

 

[gymratter]

Canadian Manual Transmission Allocations

https://www.supramkv.com/threads/canadian-manual-transmission-allocations.14174/

 

[Heavy Dupree]

FWIW - the most unreliable car I’ve owned was a 2002 Acura TL-S. I had to replace the transmission on that thing 3 times - twice under warranty and I had to pay out of pocket for the third. But I don’t trash on Acura as a brand in general - Acuras/Hondas are/were generally reliable and I just happened to get a shitty one with a slushbox for a transmission.

My 2000 CL-S went through 4 transmissions in the first 2 years, but all were covered under warranty. I was told that the final fix came by replacing it with an MDX transmission, which actually had their own share of problems in later gens.

While that experience permanently turned me off against Honda, it did jump start a consecutive Infiniti run which included a G35, G37 and Q50.

 

[ZDreamer]

BMW is "The Ultimate Driving machine"- has won accolade after accolade and they do push and often pioneer engine development. They are not for everyone. Some settle for reliability over performance and driver engagement. There is no arguement on how Lexus, Honda, Toyota, etc are mostly dead-nut reliable. But they are like driving a bland appliance. a sewing machine.

If you have not driven or owned a BMW you just won't get it. My 20 year old daily M3 all but begs me to take on ramps faster and faster. How many 20 year old JDM can you still beat on daily, look and drive great/timeless. This silly car has/had rev matching, 6 speeds, 8k red line in 2002!!

I can appreciate brand loyalty and am always tickled at the FORD vs CHEVY pickup truck wars over the decades when in reality both make pretty dam nice pickups. I am pulling for the Z to be a success- competition is fun on the track and pushes the manufacturers.

The 335d is amazingly powerful and reliable when you remove the EPA stuff- not BMW fault. The water pump housing and other issue are either overblown or non existent. My son has 500lbs of torque and gets up to 40mpg on the hwy

NEVER take a bmw to a dealership for work- people get screwed i get it. But there are tons or great indy shops that take the sting out of it.

BMW has had the straight 6 turbo or na nailed for decades. it is unarguably one of the best blocks and engine that spans generations.

You can like the Z better- for whatever reason you chose. That is awesome. But to crap on BMW because it is a joint effort, or has window buffeting ($6 fix) and yes they stay on at over 151 miles an hour repeatedly so far- is stupid. Can no longer throw the reliability rock at BMW either.

BMW is not perfect, nor is any car, as a car enthusiast I appreciate most all makes and models that seek to thrill the driver rather than just take them from point A to B in boring reliable numbness.

I think there's this thought-- Toyota do not deserve the partnership with BMW, but ok with Subaru-- that people utter beneath their breath.

Everyone know the hierarchy of the sports car maker in the last >20yrs, and BMW is the elite sports car brand. Toyota appears to be at the bottom (between the 3) and often qualified their cars as "boring", but marked with high accolades in other ways. Everybody is ok that 99% of the GR86 is Subaru, but not ok that 80% of the A90 is BMW (e.g. exterior design by Toyota, chassis/interior/drivetrain by BMW, built by Magna Styer). WHY IS THAT?!?! you would think that on the Supra, Toyota put more efforts in than the GR86, they would get no hate but it's the opposite.

At the final analysis, it boils down to: if they're same kind of people, then it's okay. Bc those that drives a Subaru or Toyota are far from an "elitist".

I hope I'm wrong.

 

[240SX]

I think there's this thought-- Toyota do not deserve the partnership with BMW, but ok with Subaru-- that people utter beneath their breath.

Everyone know the hierarchy of the sports car maker in the last >20yrs, and BMW is the elite sports car brand. Toyota appears to be at the bottom (between the 3) and often qualified their cars as "boring", but marked with high accolades in other ways. Everybody is ok that 99% of the GR86 is Subaru, but not ok that 80% of the A90 is BMW (e.g. exterior design by Toyota, chassis/interior/drivetrain by BMW, built by Magna Styer). WHY IS THAT?!?! you would think that on the Supra, Toyota put more efforts in than the GR86, they would get no hate but it's the opposite.

At the final analysis, it boils down to: if they're same kind of people, then it's okay. Bc those that drives a Subaru or Toyota are far from an "elitist".

I hope I'm wrong.

What did I just read...

Idk where youre getting your parts percentage from but Toyota did put more effect into the 86 and at least it has a Toyota tranny and their DS4 system in it. All that aside its an entry level sports car. The "Supra" is supposed to be the flagship. So yeah it does kind of rub people the wrong way when you take a Z4 and reskin it and added on a fixed hard top. To add insult to injury it was only available with an auto for the past 3 yrs and dont even get me started on that awful of a flop 4 banger abomination.

With all that said Im happy that people have more choices to pick from. To each their own.

 

[ZDreamer]

What did I just read...

Idk where youre getting your parts percentage from but Toyota did put more effect into the 86 and at least it has a Toyota tranny and their DS4 system in it. All that aside its an entry level sports car. The "Supra" is supposed to be the flagship. So yeah it does kind of rub people the wrong way when you take a Z4 and reskin it and added on a fixed hard top. To add insult to injury it was only available with an auto for the past 3 yrs and dont even get me started on that awful of a flop 4 banger abomination.

With all that said Im happy that people have more choices to pick from. To each their own.

So then you quantify it.... I'm throwing the numbers out there based on quick observations.

And to your point about " Im happy that people have more choices to pick from", which I agreed, but other folks don't look at it in terms of "car culture" to galvanize tuners, builder, racers, and gearhead together, but w/ a complete tribal attitude that lacks the technical basis.

And the point on "reskin": quick observation show that Toyota GR86 looks 99% same as BRZ--- zero efforts. That's not the same as the A90-- Toyota primarily designed that.