What car do you think is the MAIN competitor to the new Z?

Andaesthetics

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Supra vs Z has been the topic of rivalry debate since the Z Proto was revealed. But honestly I don't think the new Supra is as competitive as the new Mustang GT when it comes to the actual sports car market that these cars are in.

Why do I believe this? Well let's break down both the Supra and Mustang GT.

-2021 Mustang GT
MSRP ~$37,000
Manual or Automatic 10-speed
5.0L V8 460 HP
~3700lbs


-2021 Supra 3.0
MSRP ~$51,000
Automatic 8-speed only
3.0L I6 turbocharged 382HP
~3400lbs

Now if we look at the sales of the Supra vs Mustang it's not even close by any margin. The Mustang has remained the #1 selling sports car for the last several years. In 2020 alone over 60,000 Mustangs were sold compared to under 6,000 Supras. Over 10x as many sold! And if we look at 2021 sales so far, the Mustang is again on track to sell 10x as many cars than the Supra. Now of course those figure take into account all of the Mustang model ranges, but I'm sure a big chunk of that 60,000 figure are the GT model.

Now you might say, "Well the Mustang and Supra are two different cars for two different car enthusiasts." Well yes they are two different cars, but at the end of the day they are both SPORTS cars. They both compete in the same sports car market. You could also say, "Well the Mustang is cheaper than the Supra." Well guess what, even new Corvettes have been selling more than the new Supra and they Corvettes are thousands or tens of thousands more than the new Supra!

Why are Mustangs selling more? Because they offer great performance and appeal for the price. Why are the new Corvettes selling more? Because they offer great performance and appeal for the price. If they priced the Supra at a more competitive price, or if it offered better performance it would sell much better than what it currently does.

If we're talking JDM car culture specifically then, yes the Supra is the main competitor, but if we're talking performance, pricing, and sales, the Mustang GT ticks every box over the Supra. Nissan has been in a hole for some years now and they need to get themselves out of that hole. How can the new Z help them do that? By pricing it more competitively than the Supra and close to the Mustang GT. Nissan is already one up by having a manual option. Performance we can expect the 400HP TTV6. However, pricing is crucial for the success of the new Z. When everything is said and done the only thing that matters is what you get for the money. Money is ultimately what decides the cars we buy.

Feel free to discuss your opinions or why you disagree.
 

Snake

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Interesting take, I agree with you. In addition to mustang I think the new Z will compete with the m2/4(base not CS), 6th gen camaro/c7. Exciting time to be a sports car enthusiast.
 

Andaesthetics

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Interesting take, I agree with you. In addition to mustang I think the new Z will compete with the m2/4(base not CS), 6th gen camaro/c7. Exciting time to be a sports car enthusiast.
Another good competitor. The new M2 starts at ~$59,000. Depending on the price of the new Z, I'd strongly consider a lightly used M2 instead. It is an incredible car with great performance, nice sports car looks, and the interior is nice as well.
 

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My current ride is an 18 M2 DCT with M- exhaust. It is has been at the dealer too often mostly with electrical related issues. When it works properly ya its a blast to drive, my warranty is up 4/22 and I will unload it before then. I mostly always had Japenese cars nissan infiniti lexus, and miss the reliability....
 

GOTTHEFUZZ

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I agree with most of what you said, I disagree with most mustangs sold being GT's most of them sold are Ecoboosts used for rentals, and people that just generally couldn't afford the GT.

I'll be honest, if we were to argue stock for stock there would be no way in hell the Z is beating the GT especially if it's a 10spd.

And if we were to compare the two in the aftermarket world, we'd have to segments that argument into two segments of

Simple "Bolt-Ons" being your Intakes, exhausts, tune, ect.

and then your turbo kits, return style fuel systems, bigger injectors, ect.

If Nissan has updated their heat exchanger, and changed the turbo sizes to be slightly bigger then I'm giving that "Bolt-On" win for the Z, based off of the type of performance we have seen on the Q60. But when you really start tossing money at the coyote it's VERY hard to beat the $/HP that it provides.

To me the competition is the,
Supra (obviously)
M2
Scat pack
Type R
Mustang 5.0
RCF
And depending on the price they list the Z the C8 might even be in the competition based off of pricing.
 

Andaesthetics

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I agree with most of what you said, I disagree with most mustangs sold being GT's most of them sold are Ecoboosts used for rentals, and people that just generally couldn't afford the GT.

I'll be honest, if we were to argue stock for stock there would be no way in hell the Z is beating the GT especially if it's a 10spd.

And if we were to compare the two in the aftermarket world, we'd have to segments that argument into two segments of

Simple "Bolt-Ons" being your Intakes, exhausts, tune, ect.

and then your turbo kits, return style fuel systems, bigger injectors, ect.

If Nissan has updated their heat exchanger, and changed the turbo sizes to be slightly bigger then I'm giving that "Bolt-On" win for the Z, based off of the type of performance we have seen on the Q60. But when you really start tossing money at the coyote it's VERY hard to beat the $/HP that it provides.

To me the competition is the,
Supra (obviously)
M2
Scat pack
Type R
Mustang 5.0
RCF
And depending on the price they list the Z the C8 might even be in the competition based off of pricing.
Just to clarify I said "a big chunk" not most. Big chunk meaning probably around 1/4 of the sales are the 5.0 V8. I know most of the sales are the Ecoboost, but the 5.0 Mustang alone surely sells 2-3x more than the 3.0 Supra.

Stock vs stock I think the new Z could beat the 5.0 Mustang. It'll likely come in 200-300LBs lighter and with 400HP it'll be very close or beat the 5.0 Mustang if the Z comes with a 9-speed.

Scat Pack is also a big competitor, still even more so than the Supra, but the Mustang still is the main competitor IMO. The RCF is interesting because it's stuck in a hard spot on the market. It's price point competes with a higher tier of cars, being the BMW M3/M4, Mercedes C AMGs, Audi RS3/5, so I don't see it as competition for the Z. The RCF doesn't sell well either nor is the performance great compared to what it really competes with.
 

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I think you are spot on as I own a Mustang now and have had 3 of them and was going to get a Scat Pack. Another Mustang would probably be the smart choice since I already have a winter tire/wheel setup and the coyote is easy and fairly cheap to mod, but I just want something different with more torque in the low revs. I wish the mach 1 was more affordable. The Supra looks interesting too, but just can't get past the fact it doesn't offer cooled seats and has very limited options and colors from the factory.
 

RicerX

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I feel this take oversimplifies what the Z is supposed to be in the greater sports car market. Just because a product ticks a sporty box in a similar price range doesn't mean Nissan is intending to target that product as its competition. Is it smart to consider that product as a potential threat to sales? Sure, consider it. But only consider it to the extent it will not compromise the vision and intended purpose of the product.

The Z is never going to compete with a Mustang in sales. It doesn't matter if it has 1000 horsepower for $50k - the Mustang will outsell it. It has a broader brand appeal and many can justify the purchase of one because it is a far more practical sporty car than a Z will ever be (or should be). Four seats and a trunk mean someone can reasonably daily drive one of these whereas in 99% of cases a Z can only work for someone as a second (or third) car. Mustangs also have fleet sales to contribute to those sales numbers where a Z and a Supra do not (not in volume). A Z doesn't work as a volume rental vehicle where Mustangs and Camaros do.

The Z has always been a niche sports car (true sports car - 2 seats) with a value-for-dollar proposition. Yes the Mustang offers value-for-dollar performance, but not value-for-dollar pure sports car experience. Right now, the Miata and the Z are the only two vehicles that offer this for under $40k.

This doesn't mean people won't cross shop a Z against various other things in that price range. Someone will cross shop it with a WRX STI, a Camaro, a Mustang, a Civic Type R, etc. All that means is the buyer isn't sure exactly what type of product is the best fit. It doesn't mean the Z is intending to compete with those products. (I specifically left out the BRZ/GT86... it sits in between a Miata or Z price-wise, but doesn't handle better than a Miata and is significantly slower than a Z for ~10% money - the only people buying those are Subaru nuthuggers and/or hate Mustangs).

The Miata, Supra, and 718 Cayman are the only products in the pool Nissan needs to be concerned with regarding the Z. They offer the experience Nissan is aiming to provide with the Z for similar price points. You're going to capture the legacy Z buyers just like Chevy is capturing the legacy Vette drivers with every generation. However, your highest potential for conquest buyers comes from that pool. The people shopping in that pool of cars is more likely to have a primary vehicle to drive or otherwise be in an ownership situation that won't drive them out of that pool and into something more practical that can still fulfill a performance want like a Mustang or Camaro. If you focus on benchmarking those three, the car is most setup for success. If they price it into oblivion (and into Corvette territory), it will fail dramatically, and I think Nissan knows this.
 

RicerX

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I said all that up there before I realized the 718 had gotten all the way to $60k entry price. So maybe not the Cayman. But my point still stands.
 

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So for someone like me that will most likely usually have one car (although I may get a beater for the winter), the Z probably isn't the best option for a daily driver and I should stick with the Mustang or go with my original intention of getting a Scat Pack? I am single and most likely to stay that way given my age (but who knows) without anything to tow or haul at the moment. A big trunk is a plus at times though.
 

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Disagree that Nissan should ignore the twins (BRZ & 86) as competitors. With its new engine the twins' acceleration will be much better. Not as good as the Z's of course but then it will likely handle better - the current twins are found in all review comparisons to handle better than the 370Z. (And as good as if not better than an MX-5, see the recent Grassroots Motorsports video review of a 2020 86.)

So in cross shopping as I am you are looking at likely tradeoffs, more power and highway cruising comfort versus more agility and reponsiveness. Looking forward to reviews of both.
 
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I'd say just like everyone else the Supra is the main competitor. Besides the Supra, the Mustang, Camaro, and 718 Cayman are the secondary competitors to the Z. I honestly don't think the Vette is a competitor, not many people are cross shopping a Z and Vette. I can't wait till the reviews start coming out. Good times to be a JDM fanboy or girl!!!
 

ceric

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No offense to those who love Supra.
The 1st gen Supra ('90) was my dream car as a college student but I could not afford one.
The 2nd gen just looked strange to me. It appealed to a crowd w/o me in it.
The 3rd gen continues what 2nd gen looked like. Even worse... it has unreliable BMW stuff in it.

I used to own an E39 540iA for 8 yrs.
I lost count of how many issues I had with that thing.
It was great when it ran, though.
 
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GOTTHEFUZZ

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No offense to those who love Supra.
The 1st gen Supra ('90) was my dream car as a college student but I could not afford one.
The 2nd gen just looked strange to me. It appealed to a crowd w/o me in it.
The 3rd gen continues what 2nd gen looked like. Even worse... it has unreliable BMW stuff in it.

I used to own an E39 540iA for 8 yrs.
I lost count of how many issues I had with that thing.
It was great when it ran, though.
First gen meaning the Celica Supra?
And second gen meaning the MK3 square body 7m supra?
 
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