This Seems Like A Pretty Fair Assessment Of The Z From Car and Driver

NiZmonium

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https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a39969206/2023-nissan-z-drive/

Some say this is a bad review of the Z. But this seems pretty close to reality . And why I personally don't think the Z is worth $52k .

"It's an attractive proposition on paper and at first glance, but, as it turns out, the 2023 Nissan Z is not the budget world-beater Z-cars have been in the past. Budget does seem to be the operative word here, but in this case it applies to Nissan management, which obviously didn't allocate enough of one to thoroughly shake up the segment. There's too much 370Z in the new Z, and it could use better tires and more intelligent multimode dampers. This was not the seismic shift we were hoping for."
 

Drseckzytime

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Exactly my gripes. The value is not there. No adjustable suspension, weak exhaust, and missing other various features for that price like real brembos, Recaros, HUDs.

Gorgeous car let down by poor management and beancounter decisions.
 
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NiZmonium

NiZmonium

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Exactly my gripes. The value is not there. No adjustable suspension, weak exhaust, and missing other various features for that price like real brembos, Recaros, HUDs.

Gorgeous car let down by poor management and beancounter decisions.
Yep. The money department of Nissan cut too many corners, and tried to squeeze out the maximum profit possible for the car.

But possibly that had to be done to even justify the car in the first place
 

MHockey17

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Gorgeous car let down by poor management and beancounter decisions.
Beancounters are forever the enemy of engineers sadly 😞

One of the most standout examples of this for me is with the garbage CSC that plagued the 370Z MTs for over a decade; that was surely an issue Nissan engineering could’ve easily remedied but using anything other than that failure-prone plastic CSC was likely blocked by accounting.

Fortunately that issue will be fixed in the new Z, but questionable cost cutting seems to be a persistent trend with Nissan 😕
 

bboypuertoroc

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Honestly, the carry over from the 370Z doesn't bother me because without it, we wouldn't have a new Z. What bothers me is the price they tagged it with, especially considering the carry over from the 370Z.
 

siggy

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Beancounters are forever the enemy of engineers sadly 😞

One of the most standout examples of this for me is with the garbage CSC that plagued the 370Z MTs for over a decade; that was surely an issue Nissan engineering could’ve easily remedied but using anything other than that failure-prone plastic CSC was likely blocked by accounting.

Fortunately that issue will be fixed in the new Z, but questionable cost cutting seems to be a persistent trend with Nissan 😕
I’m a beancounter, as they say. Pretty derogatory use of the word. Did you know an engineer was responsible for the death of 346 MAX fliers? Yes, you read that correctly. It was an ENGINEER who was the CEO and head of the board. Now that we have that out of the way


People who make these comments have no idea how a business is ran. Nissan had to use the old platform, because they’re a FAILING business. They have no money. They probably don’t have the resources to pay accountants to help run the business. They’ve been an irrelevant manufacturer for the past two decades. But yes, keep believing your grossly flawed logic. Sorry an unbiased review hurt your feelings. Go ahead and spend your $53k on a “real” Japanese product :rolleyes:
 

MHockey17

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I’m a beancounter, as they say. Pretty derogatory use of the word. Did you know an engineer was responsible for the death of 346 MAX fliers? Yes, you read that correctly. It was an ENGINEER who was the CEO and head of the board. Now that we have that out of the way


People who make these comments have no idea how a business is ran. Nissan had to use the old platform, because they’re a FAILING business. They have no money. They probably don’t have the resources to pay accountants to help run the business. They’ve been an irrelevant manufacturer for the past two decades. But yes, keep believing your grossly flawed logic. Sorry an unbiased review hurt your feelings. Go ahead and spend your $53k on a “real” Japanese product :rolleyes:
My underlying point was not “engineer = good, accountant = bad”, but rather the objective of both roles can often conflict when building a budget sports car like the Z. I’m aware that engineering comprises have to be made to make a car like this fiscally sensible, but there have been instances where Nissan leadership has made poor cost cutting decisions, which is probably part of the reason they’re failing in the first place.

I also never said I disagree with this review. I share the same sentiment that the Perf Z pricing is a big miss for what is offered & how much is reused from 370Z. But then on the other hand, reviews like SG’s have shown that despite the carry over, Nissan was (mostly) wise with the expenditure of their minimal budget, improving the right areas to make it a much more refined & exciting version of the 370Z.

I won’t be trying to buy a launch model Z, but I am hopeful they will make improvements to increase its value in later model years.
 

raptor5244

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Exactly my gripes. The value is not there. No adjustable suspension, weak exhaust, and missing other various features for that price like real brembos, Recaros, HUDs.

Gorgeous car let down by poor management and beancounter decisions.
As an enthusiast I feel the same. For about $45-50k you can get a Camaro SS 1LE that has all of those features. (Mag ride, Tremec 6060 six speed, Recaros, dual mode exhaust, E-Diff, HUD, Performance Data Recorder, rear view mirror camera, heated and ventilated seats, etc.) Now, the Camaro hasn't sold that great over the years for a variety of reasons but bang for the buck is not one of them. Sharing chassis and production costs with the Cadillac ATS/CTS and R&D hand me downs from the Corvette obviously helps keep costs down.

I actually own a Camaro ZL1 at the moment and I am interested in the Z but reviews like this are starting to make me wonder. I will have to drive it for myself first and decide if it is worth the money or just save some money and get Miata ND or GR86. Supra seems a bit more edgy ride but I can't get over the BMW-ness. Might as well buy a BMW at that point.
 
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siggy

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My underlying point was not “engineer = good, accountant = bad”, but rather the objective of both roles can often conflict when building a budget sports car like the Z. I’m aware that engineering comprises have to be made to make a car like this fiscally sensible, but there have been instances where Nissan leadership has made poor cost cutting decisions, which is probably part of the reason they’re failing in the first place.

I also never said I disagree with this review. I share the same sentiment that the Perf Z pricing is a big miss for what is offered & how much is reused from 370Z. But then on the other hand, reviews like SG’s have shown that despite the carry over, Nissan was (mostly) wise with the expenditure of their minimal budget, improving the right areas to make it a much more refined & exciting version of the 370Z.

I won’t be trying to buy a launch model Z, but I am hopeful they will make improvements to increase its value in later model years.
You called an accountant a beancounter, which is derogatory. You used no such language for the all mighty engineer. And an accountant is not the enemy of the engineer; the investor is. Your reply shows just how much you don’t know about how a public company operates. Rest assured, there is not a little beancounter locked in a dark room with the authority to veto any viable business decision - in any corporation. Nissan is a publicly traded company. THAT is why there are cost cutting measures. Just ask the all mighty Boeing engineers. Unless you still think there was some beancounter secretly hiding in the corner who overruled the Boeing CEO and head of the board, who was an engineer.
 

Raven1

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You called an accountant a beancounter, which is derogatory. You used no such language for the all mighty engineer. And an accountant is not the enemy of the engineer; the investor is. Your reply shows just how much you don’t know about how a public company operates. Rest assured, there is not a little beancounter locked in a dark room with the authority to veto any viable business decision - in any corporation. Nissan is a publicly traded company. THAT is why there are cost cutting measures. Just ask the all mighty Boeing engineers. Unless you still think there was some beancounter secretly hiding in the corner who overruled the Boeing CEO and head of the board, who was an engineer.
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Freewill

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You called an accountant a beancounter, which is derogatory. You used no such language for the all mighty engineer. And an accountant is not the enemy of the engineer; the investor is. Your reply shows just how much you don’t know about how a public company operates. Rest assured, there is not a little beancounter locked in a dark room with the authority to veto any viable business decision - in any corporation. Nissan is a publicly traded company. THAT is why there are cost cutting measures. Just ask the all mighty Boeing engineers. Unless you still think there was some beancounter secretly hiding in the corner who overruled the Boeing CEO and head of the board, who was an engineer.

Accountants have their place, but it should never be one of leadership, only management. Unfortunately the two roles are very different and good managers don't always make good leaders. When designing a "halo" car for the brand, leadership needs to be given more weight. This isn't a base sedan or SUV. Its a 50 year historical-nameplate-everymans dream car.

I'm starting to consider other vehicles than the Z. Accountants are a big part of the problem. In Canada I can't get the proper larger screen with navigation on the performance trim. The exhaust for the manual sounds as aggressive as a Maxima. The tires are okay, but not the best. The suspension isn't adjustable. The car is really beautiful, and as far as exterior design goes they nailed it. It's the details that seem to fall a little short.

When Ford, Chevy, and Toyota all offer push button suspension adjustment, better tires, similar or better horsepower, etc. it is clear that the accounting managers at Nissan had too much influence. This isn't a mass produced vehicle that will be sold to families, fleets, etc. It's a special niche vehicle that made its mark by being better than the competition at the time it was first released in 1969, for a fair price.
 

2017370ZBlack

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https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a39969206/2023-nissan-z-drive/

Some say this is a bad review of the Z. But this seems pretty close to reality . And why I personally don't think the Z is worth $52k .

"It's an attractive proposition on paper and at first glance, but, as it turns out, the 2023 Nissan Z is not the budget world-beater Z-cars have been in the past. Budget does seem to be the operative word here, but in this case it applies to Nissan management, which obviously didn't allocate enough of one to thoroughly shake up the segment. There's too much 370Z in the new Z, and it could use better tires and more intelligent multimode dampers. This was not the seismic shift we were hoping for."
"Seismic shift"- these guys need a dose of reality. Just put a set of 19" Nismo wheels on the Z, which is what I did on my 370 (I'm running 275's up front and 295's on the rear) along with a set of HKS coilovers. Sheesh. The Z is a GT car from the factory. Car and Driver has always been a BMW homer.
 
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NiZmonium

NiZmonium

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"Seismic shift"- these guys need a dose of reality. Just put a set of 19" Nismo wheels on the Z, which is what I did on my 370 (I'm running 275's up front and 295's on the rear) along with a set of HKS coilovers. Sheesh. The Z is a GT car from the factory. Car and Driver has always been a BMW homer.
But that's kind of the point. That you have to go out and immediately spend $5k (or more) to get it to perform the way it should from the factory , for a $52k car.

Let's face it - this car has been completely hyped up for the past couple years , by Nissan and everyone else . Now that we see the reality of the car , it's clear that it isn't some high performance track star vehicle.
 

raptor5244

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But that's kind of the point. That you have to go out and immediately spend $5k (or more) to get it to perform the way it should from the factory , for a $52k car.

Let's face it - this car has been completely hyped up for the past couple years , by Nissan and everyone else . Now that we see the reality of the car , it's clear that it isn't some high performance track star vehicle.
Yep.

With the manual version it sounds like you need a cat back exhaust and better tires right away. The brakes seem like they may be ok for some spirited driving here and there but probably need an upgrade for any track work. The lack of mag ride option in a car at this price point. I mean Honda Civic SIs have active dampers in them now.
 

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Imma Snatch Up This Piece And Drive Around All Day Like Dave Chappelle Being A Disco Chicken . . .

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Fun Fact: My Guy Was Rollin The Zee When He Filmed This Bit For The Chappelle's Show!!
 
 





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