Still willing to pay markup after all the reviews?

forcer

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A base I6 w/ 380WHP Supra MT is $53K vs 380WHP Z MT is $40K...... the Z is still worth considering

When you step up to the Performance trim and compare it with the base I6 Supra, at about same price (or more w/ ADM), that's a tough decision.
i had the same feeling but with 53k supra you get a lighter and faster car, higher quality, better interior, higher potential, but the 40 grand Z has pretty much nothing apart from the not-even-400hp engine with lower potential.. so i m not sure even about Sport trim anymore seeing how poorly Performance trim... performs lol. i dunno have very mixed feelings, reminds me Cyberpunk 2077 release when it got overhyped, promised alot and then f'd up on release lol

 
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raptor5244

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A base I6 w/ 380WHP Supra MT is $53K vs 380WHP Z MT is $40K...... the Z is still worth considering

When you step up to the Performance trim and compare it with the base I6 Supra, at about same price (or more w/ ADM), that's a tough decision.
Yeah, it appears from the reviews they are quite different cars. I guess it depends what you are looking for. The Supra is more of a true sports car while the Z is more of a sporty car in comparison. I think the Z will sell well to the Z loyalists but I think once they all get one and the market calms down the Z Performance will be a $45k car.

Supra
- Underrated and quite bit more powerful. Like low 12s vs. 13.0 sec 1/4mi
- Inline 6 soundtrack
- About 200lbs lighter and better weight balance
- Performance Tuned suspension with adaptive dampers
- Tighter cockpit, gotta like BMW interiors

Z
- GT suspension setup - soft, needs upgrades to be track worthy, no adaptive dampers
- Z styling with the exception of that front grill...
- Performance Trim at same money as Supra is not as capable
- Z Base is good GT car value but lacks a damn LSD
- Exhaust note blows on the manual trans cars
- Lots of decade old carry overs - Chassis and interior
 

TaroBaapG35

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A base I6 w/ 380WHP Supra MT is $53K vs 380WHP Z MT is $40K...... the Z is still worth considering

When you step up to the Performance trim and compare it with the base I6 Supra, at about same price (or more w/ ADM), that's a tough decision.
You're forgetting about the ADM that will certainly be there on 2023 Supra (regardless of MT or AT). So, whichever price you're comparing to, if the Z Proto is marked up $10k, imagine same if not slightly more for Supra 6MT A91 (limited spec) $58k+$10k, so $68k.

The price comparison, apples to apples, only works if both cars get sold at MSRP.
 

bboypuertoroc

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As self defeating as this sounds, manufacturers have to make MONEY to continue to offer us with sports cars and if we aren't willing to pay up for even MSRP, then we won't have the ICE sports cars of tomorrow.
ADMs don't help out the manufacturer at all.

A $10k price jump for a car that's like 70-80% recycled is madness. I would GLADLY pay MSRP if the Performance Z came in at $45k, but it doesn't so I'm not.
 
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raptor5244

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ADMs don't help out the manufacturer at all.

A $10k price jump for a car that's like 70-80% recycled is madness. I would GLADLY pay MSRP if the Performance Z came in at $45k, but it doesn't so I'm not.
Exactly, ADMs actually hurt manufacturers. They upset customers and damage the brand. GM and Ford are finally cracking down but this shit needs to stop. Folks will be so upside down on these cars in a few years if they pay 10-20k markups. You better love the Z so much, you will be buried in it.
 

ZDreamer

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You're forgetting about the ADM that will certainly be there on 2023 Supra (regardless of MT or AT). So, whichever price you're comparing to, if the Z Proto is marked up $10k, imagine same if not slightly more for Supra 6MT A91 (limited spec) $58k+$10k, so $68k.

The price comparison, apples to apples, only works if both cars get sold at MSRP.
If there’s no ADM right now on Supra, and everybody are happy with their AT, then the risk of ADM is low for their base 2023 model I6 (MT or AT). The A91 6MT model is different , like you said w/ limited number, and I’m not comparing that one.

For Nissan z, it will be a long honeymoon phase and everybody will be antsy to get one bc is new but for the MT Supra, it’ll be like a second marriage w/ near zero honeymoon.

More importantly Toyota don’t have chip shortage problem like Nissan.
 

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also dealers get sold the cars at a dealer invoice price , msrp is a point where toyota or nissan etc etc feels the dealer can sell the car at a good price and still make profit
 

TaroBaapG35

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If there’s no ADM right now on Supra, and everybody are happy with their AT, then the risk of ADM is low for their base 2023 model I6 (MT or AT). The A91 6MT model is different , like you said w/ limited number, and I’m not comparing that one.

For Nissan z, it will be a long honeymoon phase and everybody will be antsy to get one bc is new but for the MT Supra, it’ll be like a second marriage w/ near zero honeymoon.

More importantly Toyota don’t have chip shortage problem like Nissan.
That's true since the market is already diluted with 2-3yr old supras; aside from the addition of 6mt, I don't recall reading of any big changes (mid cycle refresh) that they're pushing through. Possibly 2024 model.
 

Blackbeard

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That's true since the market is already diluted with 2-3yr old supras; aside from the addition of 6mt, I don't recall reading of any big changes (mid cycle refresh) that they're pushing through. Possibly 2024 model.
the 23 is suppose to have even more tuned suspension and pin point turning or some shit like that
 

TaroBaapG35

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the 23 is suppose to have even more tuned suspension and pin point turning or some shit like that
So not a deal breaker to most; Unless you leased a '20, minor reasons to upgrade to '23 minus the 6MT...Let's see what those markups start at, as almost every car has a markup right now.
 

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That's true since the market is already diluted with 2-3yr old supras; aside from the addition of 6mt, I don't recall reading of any big changes (mid cycle refresh) that they're pushing through. Possibly 2024 model.
The 2023 Manual and auto cars will have suspension refinements and other electronic changes that have to do with the Sport Mode characteristics if I remember correctly. They are basically, just like from the 2020 model to the 2021 model, making more changes to make the car handle better both in the corners and in the straights.
 

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So not a deal breaker to most; Unless you leased a '20, minor reasons to upgrade to '23 minus the 6MT...Let's see what those markups start at, as almost every car has a markup right now.
oh yea hell no ive always driven stick, i knew it was going to come but i didnt want to wait but i wouldnt trade in my car just to go up one
 

indio22

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Recession is on the horizon. Chip shortage is going away. ADM will not stay for long after initial craze. It will go back to MSRP or below by end of the year. I will wait.
I have doubt about that. I got a feeling initial supply this year will be lacking, and the planned output also will not be what we might hope. Leading to extended lack of avaialabilty hence higher prices. I'd love to know what is Nissan's real planned output for the Z.
 

takemorepills

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Supra
- Underrated and quite bit more powerful. Like low 12s vs. 13.0 sec 1/4mi
The difference between an AT Supra and an AT Z isn't that big.

Are you comparing 6MT Z to the 8AT Supra?

Because, like almost every modern 6MT option, it's significantly slower than the AT option.....

 

 
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