Denton

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Faster at changing gears, yes, obviously, (although until more recently they also had the tendency to pick the "wrong" gear).

BUT almost everyone who is a real car enthusiast or driving expert will tell you the manual car is more "fun" and a better "driving experience". Most of the Z reviewers tell you to get the manual, most of the Supra reviewers tell you to get the manual (now that it exists), ...

The reality is that sheer speed for the sake of it is an utterly pointless exercise, especially on public roads. What you really want is the better driving experience ... and that usually means a manual car, and a direct driver-to-mechanical-bits link with as few electronic interfering gimmicks as possible.

If all you want is sheer speed, you're better off getting a drag racer to use down at the local sprint strip.
Real car enthusiasts don't drive cars with synchros, traction control, or power steering. Peasants. :)

Stick feels cool to me, I can pretend to row 18 gears like Vin Diesel. And downshift rev matching was always my enemy and it felt so good to get it right.

But I also get a woody from max acceleration thru gears and practically instant shifting.

The car community just has so much gatekeeping. It's sad.
 

indio22

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Real car enthusiasts don't drive cars with synchros, traction control, or power steering. Peasants. :)

Stick feels cool to me, I can pretend to row 18 gears like Vin Diesel. And downshift rev matching was always my enemy and it felt so good to get it right.

But I also get a woody from max acceleration thru gears and practically instant shifting.

The car community just has so much gatekeeping. It's sad.
My only gatekeeping is, if you buy it, use it. Drive it like you mean it. I'm not a fan of buying things for imaginary use. If buying a hammer, then hit some nails with it. :)
 

Denver the Last Dinosaur

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^ Really?!? When I buy a hammer I hang it on the wall as an "art piece" hoping it will increase in value. ;)
 

BurninateZ

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The biggest concern for me was not about those straight line 0-60 & quarter mile run. It's that the lateral G being way down (0.93 vs 1.00) on the Z. I was very surprised because we are talking about the difference between an Extreme Summer tyre vs an Ultra High Performance (i.e. Adan A052 vs PS4S). Given we have established previously the S007A is actually quite a capable performance street tyre.
Yeah, that's quite a big gap, but one thing I noticed is that the tyre is listed as a Bridgestone S007 B-Silent not an S007A. I don't know how substantial the difference is between those, but I wouldn't be shocked if it goes some way to explain the apparent difference in grip.

The comparison is pretty flawed overall in any case. I noticed their top gear acceleration tests were laughably off and thought they're shifting gears in one and not the other. Sure enough that's exactly what they're doing.

Top-gear acceleration, in a manual-transmission car, where we simply goose the throttle and don't downshift, highlights midrange power. In a vehicle with an automatic, the transmission downshifts (and the times are much quicker), so this metric represents a combination of transmission and engine responsiveness. And that means the times between vehicles equipped with manual and automatic transmissions clearly aren't comparable.
🤣
 

indio22

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^ Really?!? When I buy a hammer I hang it on the wall as an "art piece" hoping it will increase in value. ;)
I wanted a new Bronco to hit trails in the Rockies this summer. To actually use the high clearance, 4-low, off-road functionalities (what a concept). But so many Broncos are getting bought up by ADM paying "wall hangers" for grocery store trips. :(
 

jdrxb9

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The number that sticks out to me is the 5-60. At 5.3, it is really poor by comparison. The 370 was 5.6. Can't blame this one on the tires - and the gearing isn't overly tall like some Porsches. Turbo lag? (Supra - both 6 and 4, other BMWs, CTR all do just fine.) Just poor tuning?

Edit - also, the 7A Q60 RWD (at 3866 lb!) does 5.1 - for the Z, even the 6M, to also be >5 is sad
 
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Dreamer

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The number that sticks out to me is the 5-60. At 5.3, it is really poor by comparison. The 370 was 5.6. Can't blame this one on the tires - and the gearing isn't overly tall like some Porsches. Turbo lag? (Supra - both 6 and 4, other BMWs, CTR all do just fine.) Just poor tuning?

Edit - also, the 7A Q60 RWD (at 3866 lb!) does 5.1 - for the Z, even the 6M, to also be >5 is sad
Its just the gearing and lack of off the line traction. Some cars can hit nearly sixty in one gear like the mustang for example. A shift cuts time, and so does spinning for the first 20 ft lol. Its not like its slow.
 

jdrxb9

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Its just the gearing and lack of off the line traction. Some cars can hit nearly sixty in one gear like the mustang for example. A shift cuts time, and so does spinning for the first 20 ft lol. Its not like its slow.
1. The gearing in the 6M in the Z is fine - a taller first would probably hurt acceleration. You are almost definitely going to shift before 60 regardless (unless you are riding a superbike :)). At least the Z doesn't require 2 shifts to 60 (like the CTR).
2. The 5-60 test starts with the car rolling. I suppose really poor tires could cause traction issues, but part of the intent of the test is to eliminate the amount of wheelspin as a variable as much as possible. (also avoids the common 'cheat' of 1' of rollout)
3. I'm not saying it is slow, per se - especially as someone driving a Miata 😄 (but I still say this metric is not good, and potentially revealing about some kind of tuning 'issue')
 

Houston.RZ34

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My only gatekeeping is, if you buy it, use it. Drive it like you mean it. I'm not a fan of buying things for imaginary use. If buying a hammer, then hit some nails with it. :)
Well said, I can't stand the Corvette Crawling done by 9 out of 10 sports cars now.
 

BobDigi5060

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Meaningless comparing a manual vs. an auto. Can’t believe they did that.
I don't think manual Supra was available for testing and isn't the main selling point of the Z the manual transmission? That's all we've been talking and hearing about for year why in the world would they test initially test the auto?

Supra won and nowadays rarely is the manual version going to be faster.

It couldn't be a clearer victory for the Supra. A manual transmission was never enough to win the comparison. Toyota and BMW are too good. This is coming from a former Nissan salesman from the #1 store in the country November 2019.
 

2017370ZBlack

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I don't think manual Supra was available for testing and isn't the main selling point of the Z the manual transmission? That's all we've been talking and hearing about for year why in the world would they test initially test the auto?

Supra won and nowadays rarely is the manual version going to be faster.

It couldn't be a clearer victory for the Supra. A manual transmission was never enough to win the comparison. Toyota and BMW are too good. This is coming from a former Nissan salesman from the #1 store in the country November 2019.
Then go buy a Supra!
Savagegeese: The Z is the better driver's car.

I want to see lap times on a real track, not this straight line stuff people like to zero in on. The Supra manual will likely be closer in line to the manual Z, and the Auto Z closer to Supra auto. The real track is where we will see the true difference in how good of a car each compare. And I'm thinking the Supra is going to walk the Z, especially since BMW err Toyota recalibrated the dynamics and suspension. Lighter, newer chassis, with a superior weight balance, and I'm not expecting some "1LE" magic in a heavier car from Nissan here. Btw, manual transmission all day every day in enthusiast cars, period. You can a special feel and connection you cannot get in an automatic.

Those tires are junk, but Nissan couldn't be bothered to fix this problem like how you pay for a "sport tuned muffler" in a trim package and it's quieter than the automatic... What are you paying for? The Z's brakes suck, no surprise here again. This is why that "performance" trim package is a damn joke, and not worth the money. And $1300-1700 for premium paint colors? Get bent.

The value isn't there in the Z and why I moved on. You want to see a real difference and value in trims/packages? Compare the $10,000 performance trim to the $7,000 1LE package SS. Then maybe you'll see why and how Nissan is ripping people off, and the Z doesn't have that value.

Michelin still makes the best street non-R compound tires. Continental has stepped up though.
To make the Z truly track capable, it would need coilovers and wider wheels. From the factory the Performance Z is a GT car and great daily driver. My 370 has HKS coilovers, Voodoo 13 adjustable arms everywhere, Whiteline sway bars, Nismo 19" wheels with 275/295 tires, and a Wavetrac differerential, and I guarantee it would beat a stock Performance Z on the track. As for the exhaust, Nissan had to put a quiet and restrictive exhaust on the manual to meet regulations.
 

BurninateZ

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I don't think manual Supra was available for testing and isn't the main selling point of the Z the manual transmission? That's all we've been talking and hearing about for year why in the world would they test initially test the auto?
It's not like the transmission choice is a focus of the review. Why choose a different transmission unless you want to sandbag the results?
 

BurninateZ

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1. The gearing in the 6M in the Z is fine - a taller first would probably hurt acceleration. You are almost definitely going to shift before 60 regardless (unless you are riding a superbike :)). At least the Z doesn't require 2 shifts to 60 (like the CTR).
2. The 5-60 test starts with the car rolling. I suppose really poor tires could cause traction issues, but part of the intent of the test is to eliminate the amount of wheelspin as a variable as much as possible. (also avoids the common 'cheat' of 1' of rollout)
3. I'm not saying it is slow, per se - especially as someone driving a Miata 😄 (but I still say this metric is not good, and potentially revealing about some kind of tuning 'issue')
I'm taking the acceleration figures with a grain of salt. Their second review mentions that when tested with the 93 octane fuel it's designed for, rather than the 91 they ran it with, it gets a 4.1s 0-60mph and 12.6s 1/4 mile.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a39969206/2023-nissan-z-drive/
 
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West Aussie

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BurninateZ

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Why would they even run it on a fuel that’s it not designed for?
Apparently 93 isn't available in the area they were testing it in originally.

As it turns out, this engine's 400-hp rating requires 93 octane, but 91 octane is the local brew in the Western U.S. This was also a pre-production sample, so its engine-control unit may not have had final production software. Nissan lent us another car to try in Michigan on 93 octane, and its 60-mph performance improved to 4.1 seconds on the way to a quarter-mile time of 12.6 seconds at 115 mph. Still, past 370Z results showed little difference between 91 and 93, so either this new turbocharged engine is more octane sensitive than the outgoing naturally aspirated one, or our California test car indeed had some pre-production teething issues. All we know for certain is we will follow up with Z production cars, once they're available.
They should have been transparent about that in the review, as it does undermine the results. Odd that they're still retaining the results from the 91 octane test though.
 
 





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