I have made my purchase decision.

[RicerX]

I have agonized for years on what the best "fun" car for me might be. Over those years, so many things have changed in both the car market and in my life that my wife makes fun of me... "you'll have a new bright idea tomorrow."

I have to say, a recent reveal made me more sure of what's going to happen than anything.

I have had three 370Zs, a 15 Q50S (with the rays wheels!) and previously a Sentra Spec V, 6MT Altima Coupe, and a 12 Mazdaspeed 3 before I became lame and got a truck as my only vehicle while I dealt with becoming a homeowner, a husband, and a father. So lots of life.

Fast forward a bit, I toiled over what made sense to spend the money on. My kids are young, and I feel like now's the time before they get older, need cars/college, etc. For a while I WANTED a GT-R so badly I could taste it, but the GT-R has gotten insanely expensive. A recent copy (back to 2020) is six figures, and anything back to 2012 is still $70k+. I just can't do it.

I always loved my experience with Infiniti. Have previously owned nearly one of everything in their portfolio. My household has seen a QX50, 60, 80, Q50, and now a 23 QX60 as the primary family vehicle (it is exceptional for a three row premium people mover, IMHO. Don't sleep on it.). I thought for sure a Red Sport something would be it. Saw a lot of VR horror stories, but didn't let it deter me. But the years went by, other things came out, and the Q50 has aged okay I guess. But the CPO red sport supply went to crap while the new MSRP skyrocketed. The Red Sport came out in 2016 for $47,950 while a new copy of essentially that same car is $62k today. A CPO copy used to be mid $30k while now some examples are nearly that $47k MSRP.

Then, the Z revealed ... it feels like an eternity has gone by since it did. ME, the guy who used to be an admin on a Nissan forum for a long time, has frequented car shows in Nashville near the Nissan mothership, and worked the press release for the Z Proto (remotely, of course!), has still yet to see a new Z in person. The more I read, the more disappointed I got with it. I haven't seen one, driven it, or experienced it for myself, but I can't help but shake the feeling that I might just be bored.

The Nissan fanboy in me has gotten disenchanted. Maybe it's time for a change.

Then, I saw this:

Rewind a bit to when I was getting into tuner cars, I got my start on a Chevy Cavalier (I was in high school and who's not stupid when they're young?) and a crazy old lady in a Jaguar put me out of my funk and totaled that sucker, allowing me into a MK IV Jetta Wolfsburg 1.8T. For me, tons of power and my first stick shift. I thought I had graduated into an Audi. That piece of shit car was so amazing to me I couldn't believe it. (I would later dump it for my Spec V because it always broke) However, friends around me always had killer cars, and those included two cars that made a serious impression with me - a 2002 Acura RSX Type S, and a 2006 Honda S2000.

If there's such a thing as manual transmission royalty, Honda is in that conversation. Those cars had such amazing and engaging manual transmissions. I really don't know how else to describe it. So I have always been curious.

When the FK8 Civic Type R came out, I remember reading about the dual axis front suspension that was basically engineered to eliminate torque steer. And then I read reviews universally praising the car. And I was always curious, but I'm a Dad now and a working professional, and I couldn't ever get to a place where I felt I could pull off boy racer while pushing 40. But while I always marked out for Nissan and Z cars, I have always respected Honda and felt they built a solid product.

When I heard about the Integra revival, I was curious. The A Spec with 200hp and a manual sure was cool, but if I knew that there was no way they wouldn't leverage the CTR. And sure enough they did.

So I dug into the specs a bit. The FL5 (current gen) CTR boasts greater lateral acceleration than a Nismo Z34 while being in the ballpark of the 0-60 and 1/4 mile of a base 370Z (depending on which review you read). So I can have a similar performing car to my favorite car I have ever owned while being able to share that experience with both of my kids at any time. The pricing hasn't yet been announced, but it's safely in the ballpark of anything I have been looking at in CPO land, and it's a MANUAL TRANSMISSION. It really checks all of the boxes and the experience should be exceptional. I will probably lay eyes on one sooner than a Z at this rate.

This is not to say the Z isn't a fun/great car. I'm sure it will be. I'm sure Nissan will turn things around as far as making vehicles available. I love my Titan, and the Integra choice fits into my family's life in such a way that I can keep my truck and keep the car as much of a garage queen as I want. Maybe one day later I'll be back in the Z, but when I saw this it just felt right. And I haven't even driven it yet.

I got in line at my local Acura dealer, but I will absolutely not pay markup, and I'm willing to fly pretty much anywhere in the eastern US to get a deal done and drive it home. Bonus points for a trip that takes me back through Tail of the Dragon on the way back.

I still plan to hang around here, and if anyone is interested, I'll share my purchase and initial impressions of the car when this all goes down!

 

[Z06fan]

Thanks for sharing your journey. We're all car lovers here so it's always interesting to see what people have driven/loved in the past and how they came to their decision on what to purchase. I opened a new bank account two years ago and deposited $25k to start funding a surprise Z for my wife. She has a (manual) Mini Cooper S that she loves and my goal was to eventually replace it with a manual red Z. While I haven't completely ruled out my plan, this whole launch has been a s*hit show and I've lost a lot of faith in Nissan. Some of it obviously isn't Nissan's fault, but much of it is. There have been a lot of cars launches over the past couple of years and this has to be one of the most poorly done launches we've seen. While I'll continue to watch the Z market the next couple of years, I'm pretty certain that I'm going to close the bank account and use that money for something else.

As a dad of 4 kids, I will tell you that there's nothing quite like sharing a fun car with your kids. When I left corporate America and my boring company cars, my very first purchase was a 6-spd Mustang GT convertible. My kids loved going to their sporting events in that car while we cranked out load music on the drive. My current fun car is a 6spd Chevy SS Sedan with a beautiful sounding LS3 under the hood. My girls have loved me picking them up from dance class and begging me to take the interstate route home so we could hit 100mph up the entrance ramp. My oldest daughter's first car purchase was a bright yellow 6spd Mustang (dad just helped her with a speeding ticket ) and I'm getting ready to teach 2 younger daughters how to drive a manual. Great memories of not only fun cars, but being able to share those cars with my kids. Enjoy the journey and good luck with your decision.

 

[Donalex]

Just be sure your wife loves the new car more than her current car.

Ask me how I know...

 

[RicerX]

Just be sure your wife loves the new car more than her current car.

Ask me how I know...

Oh boy - we share an experience! This is how we owned a 2022 QX50 for only a year before trading for a 23 QX60.

 

[RicerX]

I saw the pricing released today. It's $51,995 including destination. Absolutely zero value there for me at that price. To much else out there within punching distance, and since it will not be my daily driver, I would absolutely consider German at that price point.

Wtf man. I can't tell you how disappointed I am.

 

[West Aussie]

Just be sure your wife loves the new car more than her current car.

Ask me how I know...

Well…for my part, I am the wife

I’ve always loved cars, I think it comes from the fact my dad did as well and there were no boys in the family, so I was the one that helped him service and tune his car (back before computers made things tricky to do at home)

He owned numerous fun cars that doubled as dailies. Datsun 120Y, Nissan Bluebird and Skyline . His last car (before the oldies hyundai i30) was a Commodore V6 Executive that is still in fantastic condition despite its 20 years and now belongs to my eldest son. We weren’t rich so they were kinda the working class man’s fun drives.

I’ve always insisted my boys learnt manual, especially in Aus when you can’t drive a manual without a manual licence, but can drive an Auto with manual.
My eldest son inherited my fathers and I love for cars, and looks after the Commodore like it’s brand new….who knows maybe it will become collectable

Shortly after meeting my husband, his grandmother passed away. With the inheritance he bought a Lotus Esprit that was in excellent condition, but then children came so the car went. Since then I’ve had an Astra convertible (not too exciting) a Honda civic Type R, and the my Peugeot RCZ type R

The Peugeot was by far my favourite, looked great, sounded better had modest tech but drove like a dream and was a manual…I really miss going round corners in 4th gear
It was easy to drive with my husband, son and half a dozen people who test drive when selling commenting on just what a nice easy but fun and exhilarating ride it was.
Take offs were fast, it drew attention and it was rare . In WA there was only 1 other type R and around the world only 500 ( making the Zs limited edition look common) total were made with almost half being lost to overzealous drivers

But when I saw the Z my dads connection to Nissans called to me and I put down that deposit as fast as I could…it was the single biggest mistake ever, and everyday for the last year and a half I wish I had never sold it after the huge farce of this release. The sad part is even if I wanted to buy another, I just can’t…because there aren’t any

So I held on for two years in hope Nissan would get their shit together.
In the meantime I looked at some competitors
Mustang…too big and too many
Supra…too ugly (just can’t like it no matter how hard I try)
The Twins…in Aus Waaaay to common and very popular with teen to early adults.
Jaguar F Type….could afford a second hand, but most up for sale were quite old and again it was surprisingly long which meant it wouldn’t fit in the garage
Mercedes SLC …mostly only 200 up for second hand sale and too underpowered for me.

So when my husband suggested I take a look at a car I never would have in the past (BMW…poser car) I was surprised at just how much and how quickly I came to like the Z4
It was a nice bright colour, three years old but as new with free servicing still attached, the tech was phenomenal ( far better than the Z even though it’s three years older) the little touches like interior lighting that was already included and the basics such as Sat nav p, a great sound system and automatic wipers that should have been, it’s a good looking car although not as sleek as the Z, it had the added bonus of being a quite convertible and I was super surprised at just how powerful and quick off the mark it actually was given its motor size …i went home and had a long hard think about if the Z was ever coming, and how much longer I was prepared to wait. The next day I went back and bought the BMW Z4 and am happy I did.

2 years is far to long to wait especially when you don’t know how much longer there is to go…. And I risked a fantastic car for a bright shiny new toy and paid the price

 

[Ziggy]

Definitely a depressing time to be a car enthusiast who enjoys finding and negotiating a deal. Which was something I prided myself on.

My dream car is a 2017 Aston Martin Vantage V12 with a manual. Precovid the 2011/12 manuals V12s had gotten under $90k so I had a plan to save up to buy a 2017 in 2026/27 for hopefully $90k. Along the way, I was going to buy the next gen Cayman 4 cylinder with an updated interior so I could do European delivery and drive all over Europe. Also a dream of mine. Figured that would happen around 2023. That all fell apart. Supply chain issues, wild ADMs, Cayman going EV won’t be eligible for European Delivery. 2017 Vantages now sell for $250k and collector status.

Started looking at other options.

Nismo Z - I have a history with Zs so some love for them. Still an option but obviously all the Nissan issues.

Base 911 - tried to make the math work since so desperate for Euro Delivery but the $10k price increase put the final nail and Porsche says another $8k price increase coming this fall buried me for good. I’m irresponsible with cars but not thaaaaaaaat irresponsible.

2024 Z4 - rumored the M40i gets a manual in the US. I hate the BMW brand and what it stands for in the US but that might be the best car to check all my personal boxes. Going to be hard to look past my personal bias.

Lotus Emira - keeping an eye on it. Price increase means I’d have to do an auto i4 but you could do UK factory delivery for the Evora. If they bring that delivery option back, I might be desperate enough to concede for a couple years of ownership.

2014 - 2016 - vantage V8 manual. Maybe just call it a day on the car dreams. Buy the lesser vantage and move on with life.

 

[West Aussie]

If

Definitely a depressing time to be a car enthusiast who enjoys finding and negotiating a deal. Which was something I prided myself on.

My dream car is a 2017 Aston Martin Vantage V12 with a manual. Precovid the 2011/12 manuals V12s had gotten under $90k so I had a plan to save up to buy a 2017 in 2026/27 for hopefully $90k. Along the way, I was going to buy the next gen Cayman 4 cylinder with an updated interior so I could do European delivery and drive all over Europe. Also a dream of mine. Figured that would happen around 2023. That all fell apart. Supply chain issues, wild ADMs, Cayman going EV won’t be eligible for European Delivery. 2017 Vantages now sell for $250k and collector status.

Started looking at other options.

Nismo Z - I have a history with Zs so some love for them. Still an option but obviously all the Nissan issues.

Base 911 - tried to make the math work since so desperate for Euro Delivery but the $10k price increase put the final nail and Porsche says another $8k price increase coming this fall buried me for good. I’m irresponsible with cars but not thaaaaaaaat irresponsible.

2024 Z4 - rumored the M40i gets a manual in the US. I hate the BMW brand and what it stands for in the US but that might be the best car to check all my personal boxes. Going to be hard to look past my personal bias.

Lotus Emira - keeping an eye on it. Price increase means I’d have to do an auto i4 but you could do UK factory delivery for the Evora. If they bring that delivery option back, I might be desperate enough to concede for a couple years of ownership.

2014 - 2016 - vantage V8 manual. Maybe just call it a day on the car dreams. Buy the lesser vantage and move on with life.

I had the cash, would have bought the Emira, but in Aus they are around 200k now,,,,so that a no.
Try the BMW, I’m the same as you …would never have considered it in the past, but like me once you are in it I’m sure you will love how it drives and all the perks it comes with. The interior quality is second to none, including Porsche

 

[GeelongCats]

Nissan, congratulations on your new achievement. You've managed to make customers not only loathe your brand but also turn to your rivals. It takes a special kind of incompetence to achieve such a feat. Keep up the good work, I guess.

Like @West Aussie @khoi242 Many of us have turned towards cars and brand that we loathed before and rightfully proven wrong doing so. I wouldn’t have bought a BMW supra if it wasn’t for Nissan and I’m so glad I bought this, so, thank you Nissan .
And now, your customers are out there, exploring new brands, finding out what they've been missing. Who knows, they might even discover that the grass is greener on the other side. And all because you couldn't be bothered to keep them in the loop.

Your customers are not leaving you because they hate your brand. They're leaving you because you made it so damn easy for them to do so. All you had to do was communicate with them about the delay in the 2023 Nissan Z model. Was that really too much to ask? Apparently so.

Once this Z car gets in to people’s hand they’d love it and it is a future classic, I feel bad for engineers and designers at Nissan who’ve volunteered even to work on the project Z

 

[jc604]

Nissan, congratulations on your new achievement. You've managed to make customers not only loathe your brand but also turn to your rivals. It takes a special kind of incompetence to achieve such a feat. Keep up the good work, I guess.

Like @West Aussie @khoi242 Many of us have turned towards cars and brand that we loathed before and rightfully proven wrong doing so. I wouldn’t have bought a BMW supra if it wasn’t for Nissan and I’m so glad I bought this, so, thank you Nissan .
And now, your customers are out there, exploring new brands, finding out what they've been missing. Who knows, they might even discover that the grass is greener on the other side. And all because you couldn't be bothered to keep them in the loop.

Your customers are not leaving you because they hate your brand. They're leaving you because you made it so damn easy for them to do so. All you had to do was communicate with them about the delay in the 2023 Nissan Z model. Was that really too much to ask? Apparently so.

Once this Z car gets in to people’s hand they’d love it and it is a future classic, I feel bad for engineers and designers at Nissan who’ve volunteered even to work on the project Z

i honestly feel that nissan did it to build capital off customers deposits, who knows how many they took and turned to a profit during the hiatus of "supply chain issues" and still yet to have delivered anything

 

[khoi242]

Definitely a depressing time to be a car enthusiast who enjoys finding and negotiating a deal. Which was something I prided myself on.

My dream car is a 2017 Aston Martin Vantage V12 with a manual. Precovid the 2011/12 manuals V12s had gotten under $90k so I had a plan to save up to buy a 2017 in 2026/27 for hopefully $90k. Along the way, I was going to buy the next gen Cayman 4 cylinder with an updated interior so I could do European delivery and drive all over Europe. Also a dream of mine. Figured that would happen around 2023. That all fell apart. Supply chain issues, wild ADMs, Cayman going EV won’t be eligible for European Delivery. 2017 Vantages now sell for $250k and collector status.

Started looking at other options.

Nismo Z - I have a history with Zs so some love for them. Still an option but obviously all the Nissan issues.

Base 911 - tried to make the math work since so desperate for Euro Delivery but the $10k price increase put the final nail and Porsche says another $8k price increase coming this fall buried me for good. I’m irresponsible with cars but not thaaaaaaaat irresponsible.

2024 Z4 - rumored the M40i gets a manual in the US. I hate the BMW brand and what it stands for in the US but that might be the best car to check all my personal boxes. Going to be hard to look past my personal bias.

Lotus Emira - keeping an eye on it. Price increase means I’d have to do an auto i4 but you could do UK factory delivery for the Evora. If they bring that delivery option back, I might be desperate enough to concede for a couple years of ownership.

2014 - 2016 - vantage V8 manual. Maybe just call it a day on the car dreams. Buy the lesser vantage and move on with life.

Have you considered the jaguar f type? I'm heavily biased as I now have one lol. I'd recommend watching some reviews. Arguably one of the best looking sports cars ever designed with a fantastic exhaust note (even if you go the V6 or the V8).

 

[Z06fan]

Definitely a depressing time to be a car enthusiast who enjoys finding and negotiating a deal. Which was something I prided myself on.

My dream car is a 2017 Aston Martin Vantage V12 with a manual. Precovid the 2011/12 manuals V12s had gotten under $90k so I had a plan to save up to buy a 2017 in 2026/27 for hopefully $90k. Along the way, I was going to buy the next gen Cayman 4 cylinder with an updated interior so I could do European delivery and drive all over Europe. Also a dream of mine. Figured that would happen around 2023. That all fell apart. Supply chain issues, wild ADMs, Cayman going EV won’t be eligible for European Delivery. 2017 Vantages now sell for $250k and collector status.

Started looking at other options.

Nismo Z - I have a history with Zs so some love for them. Still an option but obviously all the Nissan issues.

Base 911 - tried to make the math work since so desperate for Euro Delivery but the $10k price increase put the final nail and Porsche says another $8k price increase coming this fall buried me for good. I’m irresponsible with cars but not thaaaaaaaat irresponsible.

2024 Z4 - rumored the M40i gets a manual in the US. I hate the BMW brand and what it stands for in the US but that might be the best car to check all my personal boxes. Going to be hard to look past my personal bias.

Lotus Emira - keeping an eye on it. Price increase means I’d have to do an auto i4 but you could do UK factory delivery for the Evora. If they bring that delivery option back, I might be desperate enough to concede for a couple years of ownership.

2014 - 2016 - vantage V8 manual. Maybe just call it a day on the car dreams. Buy the lesser vantage and move on with life.

I love the Aston Martin's as well. It's been depressing to watch the prices increase so dramatically on BAT.

 

[Ziggy]

Have you considered the jaguar f type? I'm heavily biased as I now have one lol. I'd recommend watching some reviews. Arguably one of the best looking sports cars ever designed with a fantastic exhaust note (even if you go the V6 or the V8).

Yes. I was very close to pulling the trigger on this one in November and it was local from a good broker. Probably my second favorite design after the Vantage. And all the reviews rave about the sound. But I don’t have enough faith in my local Jaguar service options and I also don’t have an emotional connection to the brand. So between those two reasons I decided to keep waiting.

 

[Ziggy]

I love the Aston Martin's as well. It's been depressing to watch the prices increase so dramatically on BAT.

It’s so depressing. I watched an auction today for an auto v8 with a love it or hate it interior and a boring to me exterior color. Basically to get a data point of the “lowest price a car should be on the market as everything I want is better” lol. And it sold for $20k more than I expected. I guess a way more desirable spec than I understood.