indio22

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You know what.....

I think people are getting too focused on the wrong metrics. Especially when talking about the Z vs 86. Because, from a "track" perspective, and I assume one with no long straights, that's the only way a 86 trumps a Z.

But, who TF is actually tracking their car? These journos talk like their audience is track stars.

All versions of the FM platform will slaughter any 86 in the only metric the majority of us could possibly play out..... at a red light.

So many times, I've seen the "superior dynamics" 86 acting silly in traffic, jetting in and out, the moment they pull up on my Q60, they settle right down because when we end up at the red light, they know what's up....we ain't doing lap times.

I like the idea of the new Z being a "Japanese muscle car" fine by me. I don't even know where the track is in Seattle.....
They weren't testing on a track though. I'm not a track guy either, but I use to live out west along the Colorado eastern front range. We have all manner of twisty roads out there and few stoplights.

Just daily driving from my old house in the foothills to town would have been great fun, if I had my BRZ at that time. My son drove the BRZ out there on vacation and had a blast.

Now I'm stuck in flat Chicagoland with stoplights all over. Either way, hammering throttle in a straight line between stop lights, for me has never had much appeal. I love on/off ramps though. :)

Personally, I've come to like road connectedness and handling a lot, even at the expense of some insulating/comfort. So hopefully if Z has more wallow or whatever, it can be easily (and not too costly) addressed down the road.

(map of a Colorado canyon road I used to often travel)
PoudreCanyonMapClip.jpg

 

Jah_Happy

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Yeah street racing, cool. Then goes on to brag about a Q60…yeah. It’s too bad the Z gets dominated by domestic muscle. And probably won’t be as reliable as the other “Japanese” muscle. I’m still chuckling about the street racing talk with a Q60. Should’ve thrown a gapplebees in there. I’d take you more seriously then. Do you know where you can find a Z in Seattle?
Are you ok? Like honestly im concerned.
 

nms1s

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You know what.....

I think people are getting too focused on the wrong metrics. Especially when talking about the Z vs 86. Because, from a "track" perspective, and I assume one with no long straights, that's the only way a 86 trumps a Z.

But, who TF is actually tracking their car? These journos talk like their audience is track stars.

All versions of the FM platform will slaughter any 86 in the only metric the majority of us could possibly play out..... at a red light.

So many times, I've seen the "superior dynamics" 86 acting silly in traffic, jetting in and out, the moment they pull up on my Q60, they settle right down because when we end up at the red light, they know what's up....we ain't doing lap times.

I like the idea of the new Z being a "Japanese muscle car" fine by me. I don't even know where the track is in Seattle.....
True. My only problem with this take is... The Supra. One of them bad boys pulls up next to you at a red light, and all of a sudden you're the one to keep quiet. You throw in the Mustang and the Camaro at the same price range and all of a sudden the Z is being walked by all of them. So where does the Z shine as a sports car? I think as much as we don't want to admit, it comes down to looks. The Z is gorgeous and should be driven for that alone. It has respectable power, but after so many "Z vs" reviews it has stopped being the selling point for me.
 
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takemorepills

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True. My only problem with this take is... The Supra. One of them bad boys pulls up next to you at a red light, and all of a sudden you're the one to keep quiet. You throw in the Mustang and the Camaro at the same price range and all of a sudden the Z is being walked by all of them. So where does the Z shine as a sports car? I think as much as we don't want to admit, it comes down to looks. By the Z for nostalgia, or simply because its beautiful and you don't care about its sportiness much.
There's so many Tesla's around here, I've become real good at looking at birds in the trees....

And I'm only counterpointing statements made about 86 vs. Z.
 

nms1s

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There's so many Tesla's around here, I've become real good at looking at birds in the trees....

And I'm only counterpointing statements made about 86 vs. Z.
well Teslas are quick, but they are not sports cars and therefore are out of the discussion.
I just don't think its a fair comparison at all with the GR86. One is a sub 30k sports car and the other is a 50k sports car, it better be faster for the extra 20k. But once you consider other RWD, manual sports cars within the same price range you quickly realize the Z is not topping the charts by any metric and maybe that's ok, especially if you don't care about spec sheets/0-60 numbers, and just wanna drive something for its nostalgic value or because you find it beautiful, that's perfectly fine, but bullying the significantly cheaper car to score some sports car points just isn't the move.
 
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BurninateZ

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well Teslas are quick, but they are not sports cars and therefore are out of the discussion.
I just don't think its a fair comparison at all with the GR86. One is a sub 30k sports car and the other is a 50k sports car, it better be faster for the extra 20k. But once you consider other RWD, manual sports cars within the same price range you quickly realize the Z is not topping the charts by any metric and maybe that's ok, especially if you don't care about spec sheets/0-60 numbers, and just wanna drive something for its nostalgic value or because you find it beautiful, that's perfectly fine, but bullying the significantly cheaper car to score some sports car points just isn't the move.
Agreed RE: the 86. It's a great car and the best value of the options imo. It isn't fast though, and I think anyone buying one has made peace with that already.

Having the best specs/numbers in the category are not super relevant to my daily driving needs. Other factors like visibility, build quality, usable cabin space, long term ownership costs etc are more important to me.
 

nms1s

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Agreed RE: the 86. It's a great car and the best value of the options imo. It isn't fast though, and I think anyone buying one has made peace with that already.

Having the best specs/numbers in the category are not super relevant to my daily driving needs. Other factors like visibility, build quality, usable cabin space, long term ownership costs etc are more important to me.
Those are definitely important factors for daily driving but never the priority when shopping for a sports car. By its nature, a sports car is a severe compromise in all of the aspects you mentioned. They are maybe the worst in all vehicle types when it comes to comfort/ease of driving/cargo space/reliability etc. They are small, sensitive, noisy, and rough machines that we buy to have fun with. Hell, we voluntarily make them more of a pain to drive by asking for a manual lol. A Sports sedan would definitely be the better choice if those things matter a lot. They'll allow for some really satisfying spirited driving on your way to work, and also cover all your daily needs successfully. That's just my two cents on the matter.
 
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BurninateZ

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Those are definitely important factors for daily driving but never the priority when shopping for a sports car. By its nature, a sports car is a severe compromise in all of the aspects you mentioned. They are maybe the worst in all vehicle types when it comes to comfort/ease of driving/cargo space/reliability etc. They are small, sensitive, noisy, and rough machines that we buy to have fun in. Hell, we voluntarily make them more of a pain to drive by asking for a manual lol. A Sports sedan would definitely be the better choice if those things matter a lot. They'll allow for some really satisfying spirited driving on your way to work, and also cover all your daily needs successfully. That's just my two cents on the matter.
I mean I don't think there is a right and a wrong way to shop for a sports car, and I agree that other types of cars offer better comfort/practicality. At the performance level these cars are at though, I'd trade a small amount of performance for better daily drivability.

If I were chasing a purer sports car experience, I'd be looking to a used Cayman or Elise personally.
 

nms1s

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I mean I don't think there is a right and a wrong way to shop for a sports car, and I agree that other types of cars offer better comfort/practicality. At the performance level these cars are at though, I'd trade a small amount of performance for better daily drivability.

If I were chasing a purer sports car experience, I'd be looking to a used Cayman or Elise personally.
Sure, no one is restricted from buying a sports car. My only point is, if the characteristics you mentioned are important to you, it would be much more optimal to shop for a sports sedan instead, because it will satisfy all your criteria nicely and not lose you any performance compared to the Z. That's what I did. I ended up getting a BMW 440i recently. Still a MT coupe with tons of power and sportiness, but I'm also getting great visibility, German luxury interior, usable back seats, and a reliable engine that takes extra boost like no other. So even in the fight for best comfort/daily livability Nissan Z loses to other competitors that bring all the same things to the table and then some.

I want the Z to succeed as much as you. It's still my childhood dream car, that I plan on getting on day. But as it stands, the car has some serious competition any way you measure it and its losing to them all. I just hope Nissan get their shit together in the next couple of years and improves on this car or at least lowers the price so that I can have a reason to buy one. I think an LSD for the Z Sport and maybe optional interior upgrades would be perfect.
 
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Donalex

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Any car with enough horsepower to overcome the resistance of air molecules can go fast in a straight line.

It's the combination of other factors which elicits total visceral satisfaction.

As they say in the car bid-ness, "There's an ass for every seat."

Buy what makes you smile, not what others admire.
 

NecioVato

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what i find interesting is how all these reviews are ALL OVER THE PLACE. I feel like it was the same for the Supra when it first came out - now it feels like the Supra 'is the next coming'. Granted I have been 'bitten' as well with all the negative reviews to the point where I now know I won't be buying this car new. At the same time - I feel once modders get a hold of it and do some adjustments - a lot of the issues that the reviews are talking about will be a moot point (just like ask any Supra owner - about that buffeting issue).

Anyway - like all have said - drive what you like and enjoy the car for what it is. This the best and worse time to be alive when it comes to sports cars haha - best bc of all the cool stuff that is coming out and worse bc it has to happen during a pandemic - so shortages, ADM that is out of control etc.
 

nms1s

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what i find interesting is how all these reviews are ALL OVER THE PLACE. I feel like it was the same for the Supra when it first came out - now it feels like the Supra 'is the next coming'. Granted I have been 'bitten' as well with all the negative reviews to the point where I now know I won't be buying this car new. At the same time - I feel once modders get a hold of it and do some adjustments - a lot of the issues that the reviews are talking about will be a moot point (just like ask any Supra owner - about that buffeting issue).

Anyway - like all have said - drive what you like and enjoy the car for what it is. This the best and worse time to be alive when it comes to sports cars haha - best bc of all the cool stuff that is coming out and worse bc it has to happen during a pandemic - so shortages, ADM that is out of control etc.
Is that true though? Most of the initial Supra pushback was people clowning it for being a BMW but I don't think anyone really complained about driving dynamics. And the buffeting issue is an 80 dollar fix compared to all the aftermarket upgrades the Z will require i.e. suspension, tires, brakes that'll cost thousands.

Totally agree with you second point though.

 

 
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