Covid & Vaccines discussion

Which one did you get?

  • Pfizer

    Votes: 22 41.5%
  • Moderna

    Votes: 10 18.9%
  • Johnson & Johnson

    Votes: 6 11.3%
  • AstraZeneca

    Votes: 1 1.9%
  • Novavax

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Sputnik

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Convidecia

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I haven't gotten one yet nor do I plan on getting one

    Votes: 9 17.0%
  • I'm waiting to see if there are anymore side effects & issues

    Votes: 5 9.4%

  • Total voters
    53
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supra93

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I need to update my post. After a longer chat with my mom she said about 2 months ago she got really sick for a week and lost all taste. She never went and got tested, but she suspect it was Covid. So she is now assuming since she might have gotten the virus in the past that is the reason why she is not showing any symptoms.
 

ZDreamer

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I don't get the vax hesitant people. Just get the vax, so many benefits:

...
You know the older I get, the less I know. I don't know what goes on in people's head, and I prefer that way. But what I know is that, based on study by Jonathan Haidts, everybody have a "political leaning" of liberal or conservative. It's a natural way of explanation how people function in society. Individuals have different outlook on life and how they want to be governed. I don't know if the characterization of "believe in science" has substantial explanation to the hesitants. One thing we know is that this whole pandemic has been politicized enough that affected every groups and identities in US. And we can't just change people's way of life on how they want to be governed.

There are a lot of highly educated people that don't want the vaccine (e.g. nurses across US). So it's not just the poor or unprivileged groups of people.

Honestly, I don't think it's a good idea to utter the "believe in science" to people because it imply tribalism. Right now we need sensible people to convince others to be vaxxed based on acceptable risks, bc we believe people are not as dumb as we believe them to be.
 

takemorepills

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You know the older I get, the less I know. I don't know what goes on in people's head, and I prefer that way. But what I know is that, based on study by Jonathan Haidts, everybody have a "political leaning" of liberal or conservative. It's a natural way of explanation how people function in society. Individuals have different outlook on life and how they want to be governed. I don't know if the characterization of "believe in science" has substantial explanation to the hesitants. One thing we know is that this whole pandemic has been politicized enough that affected every groups and identities in US. And we can't just change people's way of life on how they want to be governed.

There are a lot of highly educated people that don't want the vaccine (e.g. nurses across US). So it's not just the poor or unprivileged groups of people.

Honestly, I don't think it's a good idea to utter the "believe in science" to people because it imply tribalism. Right now we need sensible people to convince others to be vaxxed based on acceptable risks, bc we believe people are not as dumb as we believe them to be.
Speaking to the sad fact of "politicizing", I have a very good reason to feel politicized:
When president Trump was at the end of his tenure and the vaccine was imminent, every person of a certain political persuasion that now strongly support vaccinations, was strongly against the upcoming vaccine because Trump was President, but now they've changed their mind.

Politicians and media that last year downplayed the riots where people were getting hurt, places burned, and strong racial-political lines defined, saying that all that was justifiable, which many people disagree with and resent for that, are now telling people to get vaccinated. Why would anyone be surprised some people mistrust what they are being told?

2 weeks to flatten the curve keeps morphing into something else.

Where I work, we have a vaccine mandate. Because I work for a liberal City government, we also have RSJI policies and training. For my 14 years of employment I have been chastised for my White skin and being hetero. Same for my coworkers. Now, these same people who racially brow-beat their employees are finding some resistance. Although I have tough skin, I can see why my coworkers have been hesitant, some are going to be fired.

It's tough to see through the BS if you are not liberal. It's a tough pill to swallow having these people force a vaccine on you when you clearly hate those people.

For me, the vaccine is not dangerous, so just quietly take it. But I support my fellow Americans who have reasonably decided to resist.
 

ZDreamer

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...

Where I work, we have a vaccine mandate. Because I work for a liberal City government, we also have RSJI policies and training. For my 14 years of employment I have been chastised for my White skin and being hetero. Same for my coworkers. Now, these same people who racially brow-beat their employees are finding some resistance. Although I have tough skin, I can see why my coworkers have been hesitant, some are going to be fired.

It's tough to see through the BS if you are not liberal. It's a tough pill to swallow having these people force a vaccine on you when you clearly hate those people.

For me, the vaccine is not dangerous, so just quietly take it. But I support my fellow Americans who have reasonably decided to resist.
I don't know if we should "support" them or not because we do need as much people vaxxed. We should tell them: look, there's a lot we don't know about this pandemic and its disease. We do have a pretty good knowledge that break through does happen but it reduces the severity for hospitalization and death. We do have the best doctors in the world, but treatment can be unreliable and limited if hospitalized. And we need to talk about indoor air quality improvement because everybody share the breathing space at the work place.

I think people can reason with that and it won't change their mind immediately, but at least it doens't sound like we're trying to jam our politic down their throat. That's where trust begin and people will start to listen
 

takemorepills

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I don't know if we should "support" them or not because we do need as much people vaxxed. We should tell them: look, there's a lot we don't know about this pandemic and its disease. We do have a pretty good knowledge that break through does happen but it reduces the severity for hospitalization and death. We do have the best doctors in the world, but treatment can be unreliable and limited if hospitalized. And we need to talk about indoor air quality improvement because everybody share the breathing space at the work place.

I think people can reason with that and it won't change their mind immediately, but at least it doens't sound like we're trying to jam our politic down their throat. That's where trust begin and people will start to listen
It's going to take more than that.
Even for pro vaccine people, I can't understand why they are being so obedient to a fractured narrative.

Vaccine hesitant people see it....
-take this vaccine.

Will it prevent me from getting COVID?
-no guarantees

Will it prevent me from dying from COVID?
-no guarantees

Ok, how about will it prevent transmission?
-not totally

Fine, can I at least take my face mask off after 2 weeks?
-definitely....not!

The narrative has been:
- don't bother wearing a face mask, that's for doctors
- wait, start wearing face masks!
- follow the arrows on the floor
- 2 weeks to flatten the curve
- whoops, 20 months later....
- if we get most people vaccinated, face masks can come off
- few weeks later, face masks back on.

Every layer of the changing narrative has had people clinging to it as infallible fact. When the narrative changes, those people cling to the new one like it won't change.
It's like a toxic relationship.
It's weird that people don't evaluate the narrative

Anyways, my opinion is the vaccine manufacturers aren't injecting poison into us, so it's safe to be vaccinated. But I can assure you the narrative will change again, and it'll eventually come out that the COVID can't be stopped, we're going to need to learn to accept the risk of it being among us permanently.
 

H2O_Doc

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You know the older I get, the less I know. I don't know what goes on in people's head, and I prefer that way. But what I know is that, based on study by Jonathan Haidts, everybody have a "political leaning" of liberal or conservative. It's a natural way of explanation how people function in society. Individuals have different outlook on life and how they want to be governed. I don't know if the characterization of "believe in science" has substantial explanation to the hesitants. One thing we know is that this whole pandemic has been politicized enough that affected every groups and identities in US. And we can't just change people's way of life on how they want to be governed.

There are a lot of highly educated people that don't want the vaccine (e.g. nurses across US). So it's not just the poor or unprivileged groups of people.

Honestly, I don't think it's a good idea to utter the "believe in science" to people because it imply tribalism. Right now we need sensible people to convince others to be vaxxed based on acceptable risks, bc we believe people are not as dumb as we believe them to be.
This is an important post. Read it if you missed it.
 

Z34_2.0

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I need to update my post. After a longer chat with my mom she said about 2 months ago she got really sick for a week and lost all taste. She never went and got tested, but she suspect it was Covid. So she is now assuming since she might have gotten the virus in the past that is the reason why she is not showing any symptoms.
Was that after getting the vaccine?
 

Donalex

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It's going to take more than that.
Even for pro vaccine people, I can't understand why they are being so obedient to a fractured narrative.

Vaccine hesitant people see it....
-take this vaccine.

Will it prevent me from getting COVID?
-no guarantees

Will it prevent me from dying from COVID?
-no guarantees

Ok, how about will it prevent transmission?
-not totally

Fine, can I at least take my face mask off after 2 weeks?
-definitely....not!

The narrative has been:
- don't bother wearing a face mask, that's for doctors
- wait, start wearing face masks!
- follow the arrows on the floor
- 2 weeks to flatten the curve
- whoops, 20 months later....
- if we get most people vaccinated, face masks can come off
- few weeks later, face masks back on.

Every layer of the changing narrative has had people clinging to it as infallible fact. When the narrative changes, those people cling to the new one like it won't change.
It's like a toxic relationship.
It's weird that people don't evaluate the narrative

Anyways, my opinion is the vaccine manufacturers aren't injecting poison into us, so it's safe to be vaccinated. But I can assure you the narrative will change again, and it'll eventually come out that the COVID can't be stopped, we're going to need to learn to accept the risk of it being among us permanently.
Absolutely, the narrative changes.

The reason? The situation is fluid, research is being done, and actions are taken when things go sideways.

However, let's see what's proven by scientific AND anecdotal evidence:

The vaccine will not prevent you from getting COVID, but it does almost certainly keep you from death and hospitalization.

Wearing a mask effectively decreases the transmission of the virus from others. The virus is atomized into the air from sneezing, coughing, and even talking. That's why we should maintain a six foot distance from others.

Just because you have no symptoms doesn't mean you aren't infected. COVID affects people in different ways.

I just don't understand how the average person suddenly knows so much about science enough to totally reject the directions of the scientific community at large at the peril of their own lives...

I've had four friends die over the past thirteen months, of which none were vaccinated.
 

takemorepills

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I just don't understand how the average person suddenly knows so much about science enough to totally reject the directions of the scientific community at large at the peril of their own lives...
Well, aren't meteorologists "scientists"?? Here in WA State, they are quite often wrong in their forecasts. So, "science" isn't perfect.

Some of us have personal experiences that guide us. For example, myself I have had medical issues for the past 15 years that approx. 75% of the time doctors have screwed up on me, for which I bare scars that affect my appearance. I have had COVID and it was minor, my reaction to vaccine was stronger. I am more fearful of cancer than COVID, and I only trust doctors when I feel desperate for help.

Lastly, not everyone in the scientific community is on board. And many anti-vax people have likely had COVID, and have antibodies that are stronger than if they had only a vaccine, why not allow them to opt out with a compliant antibody test? WHY MAKE EVERYONE TAKE A VACCINE? Let "science" identify people who have strong antibodies and save the vaccines for other people who need it. Heck, help other countries...

No matter how much we try and run from COVID, it will be waiting to get you. It's going to be around for the rest of our lives, waiting for us. It'll mutate, and infect even those that "do everything right" given enough time.
 

West Aussie

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Absolutely, the narrative changes.

The reason? The situation is fluid, research is being done, and actions are taken when things go sideways.

However, let's see what's proven by scientific AND anecdotal evidence:

The vaccine will not prevent you from getting COVID, but it does almost certainly keep you from death and hospitalization.

Wearing a mask effectively decreases the transmission of the virus from others. The virus is atomized into the air from sneezing, coughing, and even talking. That's why we should maintain a six foot distance from others.

Just because you have no symptoms doesn't mean you aren't infected. COVID affects people in different ways.

I just don't understand how the average person suddenly knows so much about science enough to totally reject the directions of the scientific community at large at the peril of their own lives...

I've had four friends die over the past thirteen months, of which none were vaccinated.
But that’s not true….you can still die even double vaccinated. In Australia the highest death toll of any day is 15, and two of those were fully vaccinated another 4 Had one vaccine.
So a third had a vaccination of some type, and 4/5ths of the pop in NSW (where deaths occurred) have had at least one vaccination.

I’m vaccinated, so not against it…just pointing out that even the vaccinated can and still do die
 

SS727Z

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Well, aren't meteorologists "scientists"?? Here in WA State, they are quite often wrong in their forecasts. So, "science" isn't perfect.

Some of us have personal experiences that guide us. For example, myself I have had medical issues for the past 15 years that approx. 75% of the time doctors have screwed up on me, for which I bare scars that affect my appearance. I have had COVID and it was minor, my reaction to vaccine was stronger. I am more fearful of cancer than COVID, and I only trust doctors when I feel desperate for help.

Lastly, not everyone in the scientific community is on board. And many anti-vax people have likely had COVID, and have antibodies that are stronger than if they had only a vaccine, why not allow them to opt out with a compliant antibody test? WHY MAKE EVERYONE TAKE A VACCINE? Let "science" identify people who have strong antibodies and save the vaccines for other people who need it. Heck, help other countries...

No matter how much we try and run from COVID, it will be waiting to get you. It's going to be around for the rest of our lives, waiting for us. It'll mutate, and infect even those that "do everything right" given enough time.
Are you really comparing a news forecaster (most of which don’t even have a meteorology degree) to Microbiologists and Immunologists?
 

Donalex

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Exactly. Science, just like almost any other field, has many disciplines, of which each has certain standards and practices.

I meant to say that, with a vaccine, the occurrence of death or hospitalization is the least.
 

fliplover

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Since the Delta variant has become the dominant strain here in the US, roughly 95% of ICU patients and deaths are occurring among the unvaccinated. That statistic alone is proof that the vaccines are working.
 
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